Bashing Shield

[Bauglir]

If it's any help, this is for a halfling character with a light steel shield. It changes the 1d2 to 1d6, which is the same as the small longsword in the other hand. I just like the idea of a three foot high halfling smashing humans' kneecaps in!

Yeah I know but think about this - you could have a human wielding a longsword and a shield - and doing higher base damage with the shield than with the sword - and the shield counts as a light weapon?

robberbaron: I could see it working either way. Whatever works best in your game I guess.

 

[Pinotage]

Shield Stacking

Yeah I know but think about this - you could have a human wielding a longsword and a shield - and doing higher base damage with the shield than with the sword - and the shield counts as a light weapon?

robberbaron: I could see it working either way. Whatever works best in your game I guess.

Actually, a spiked Bashing medium shield does 1d8+1 damage and is considered a light weapon. It costs 4200 gp and to get it any better, you need to spend more to get it enchanted as a weapon. For 8300 gp you can get a flaming light weapon doing 1d6 + 1d6. I don't think there's a big difference between the two. But, like you said, it's up to my DM

 

[BelXiror]

Actually, a spiked Bashing medium shield does 1d8+1 damage and is considered a light weapon

Medium shield? Wheres that from?



Shield, Heavy, Wooden or Steel: You strap a shield to your forearm and grip it with your hand. A heavy shield is so heavy that you can’t use your shield hand for anything else.
Wooden or Steel: Wooden and steel shields offer the same basic protection, though they respond differently to special attacks.
Shield Bash Attacks: You can bash an opponent with a heavy shield, using it as an off-hand weapon. See Table: Weapons for the damage dealt by a shield bash. Used this way, a heavy shield is a martial bludgeoning weapon. For the purpose of penalties on attack rolls, treat a heavy shield as a one-handed weapon

Shield, Light, Wooden or Steel: You strap a shield to your forearm and grip it with your hand. A light shield’s weight lets you carry other items in that hand, although you cannot use weapons with it.
Wooden or Steel: Wooden and steel shields offer the same basic protection, though they respond differently to special attacks.
Shield Bash Attacks: You can bash an opponent with a light shield, using it as an off-hand weapon. See Table: Weapons for the damage dealt by a shield bash. Used this way, a light shield is a martial bludgeoning weapon. For the purpose of penalties on attack rolls, treat a light shield as a light weapon.


A spiked light shield is a with the bashing enchantment is a 1d8 light weapon, and a spiked heavy shield is a 2d6 one handed weapon, if you let spikes and bashing stack.

Makes me wonder why there isn't an enchantment for weapons that allows you to count them as larger for damage purposes

 

[Bauglir]

Ah, pardon me, little bit of 3.0 throwback there

(in 3.0 the heavy shield was a martial light weapon that did 1d4 base damage)

 

[Hypersmurf]

Makes me wonder why there isn't an enchantment for weapons that allows you to count them as larger for damage purposes

Isn't that what "Heavy" weapons from Magic of Faerun do?

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

So I could pay 4169 gp to buy a spiked light steel shield +1, Bashing, but then pay a further 8000 gp, say, to make it into a +2 weapon? That would mean I only get +2 attack and damage with the weapon, and not +3 since the Bashing won't stack with the +2 weapon? But I still get the benefit of 3 size increases on the weapon damage due to spikes and Bashing?

Almost exactly right, by my reading.

Except I'd require that the initial purchase be 4469gp, since the spiked shield must have been originally crafted as a masterwork weapon (+300gp) to qualify for weapon enhancements and abilities. Masterwork is a quality that cannot be 'added' to an item, so it had to have been built that way from the beginning.

OK, a GM might rule that you can, but I don't think you should be able to mix shield and weapon enhancements on the same item.

Except that the PHB description of shields specifically states that you can craft them as magic weapons in their own right.

-Hyp.

 

[Vraille Darkfang]

In a recent Dragon Magazine (I think it was Sage Advice), it gives an "official" (for what that's worth) answer to the Bashing Spiked Shield.

Basically the "offical" answer is the Bashing Property is USELESS on a Spiked Shield. It gives an example:

If you have a +1Bashing Shield with non-magical Spikes you may choose to EITHER use the +1 Bashing enhancement to do Bludgeoning Damage that will overcome DR/Magic or you may use the Spikes to do normal Piercing damage. If you enchant the Spikes You may then do either Magical Bashing Damage (from the Bashing enchantment) or Magical Piercing Damage (from the Spikes). Niether effect in any way overlaps.

I find it bizarre that you have, essentially 2 weapons when you bash & you choose which you'd like.

Since I find it a silly rule (by silly I mean one where Game-Balance, Rules Interpretations overule common sense), I ignore it. In my games I say that the Bashing Enhancement works this way with shield spikes:

You get the +2 Size categories from the Bashing Property. However, this doesn't stack with the +1 size category from the Spikes. However, the benefit comes in that I allow the +1 Enhancement Bonus (from the Bashing Property) to "merge" onto the Spikes, thus making them +1 spikes. Thus all magical bashing Spiked shields have MW Spikes to begin with.

So, a +1 (+1 Bashing) Spiked Shield counts as a +2 Shield (+1 enhancment, +1 bashing property) & a +1 Weapon (the Spikes being +1 weapons). If the PC then wants to enchant the spikes further, he already starts out at +1.

In effect, I give a price discount for the Bashing Property on spiked shields.

Vraille Darkfang

P.S. The whole "Silly" remark is not to insult the Sage. I like his "Rules Over All" stance. It makes it easier to see why he rules the way he does, and whether his ruling fits into my own game. I mean no disrespect to the Sage, (I agree with about 75% of his rulings).

 

[Hypersmurf]

In a recent Dragon Magazine (I think it was Sage Advice), it gives an "official" (for what that's worth) answer to the Bashing Spiked Shield.

But it also demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of shield spikes...

If you have a +1Bashing Shield with non-magical Spikes...

... and that's it right there.

The shield and the spikes are not two distinct items.

Once you affix spikes to a shield, you no longer have "a shield" and "spikes". You have "a spiked shield".

If you add shield special abilities to it, you end up with a +1 Bashing Spiked Shield... not a +1 Bashing Shield with non-magical spikes.

If you add weapon special abilities, you get a Spiked Shield that is a +1 Flaming weapon... not a shield with +1 Flaming spikes.

You can, in fact, ditch the spikes entirely, and make a shield that is a +1 Flaming martial bludgeoning weapon. If it's a spiked shield, it's a +1 Flaming martial piercing weapon that does a little more damage.

So, as written in the Core Rules, a +1 (shield) Bashing Spiked Shield is a Spiked Shield with a +1 enhancement bonus to its shield bonus, that acts as a +1 weapon and deals damage as if it were two sizes larger than a normal Spiked Shield.

-Hyp.

 

[elbandit]

Question about Bashing

A question poped in my mind while reading this thread.

If you are weilding a long sword and Heavy Shield and decide to just make a bashing attempt (essentially a single attack with your off hand) what would the penalty be?

 

[Hypersmurf]

If you are weilding a long sword and Heavy Shield and decide to just make a bashing attempt (essentially a single attack with your off hand) what would the penalty be?

According to the description of a shield ("You may bash with a heavy shield, using it as an off-hand weapon"), and the description of 'off-hand' in the PHB Glossary: -4 on the attack roll, and half Str bonus to damage.

-Hyp.