BCL - an idea for multiclassed spellcasters
- Thread starter Thanee
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Thanee said:
So, you're saying that a Wiz1/Ftr6 should cast her spells as a 4th level caster? My previous post was that a Wiz1/Ftr12 would cast as a 4th level caster.
Also, you're saying that a Wiz4/Clr4 should cast both her arcane and divine spells as a 7th level caster. My previous post was that a Wiz4/Clr4 would cast both arcane and divine spells as a 6th level caster.
My position is that gaining levels by itself does make a caster better at casting, even if those levels aren't in the same spellcasting class. However, given the amount of time and energy that goes into developing the abilities of the other class, the individual cannot devote as much training to the spellcasting class. I guess my argument is that what goes into advancing in BAB isn't as hard to manage as what goes into advancing in BCL.
I could, of course, just say that I like my system better and go with my own. But I'd rather wait and see what persuasion you have to make me adopt your system. What's your argument for your faster progression?
Dave
Thanee
First Post
Concept viability.Vrecknidj said:
In most cases, the slow progression doesn't make up for the loss of spellcasting power.
I based my idea on the Practiced Spellcaster feat somewhat, which also grants a huge bonus to multiclassed casters. That feat was introduced, because multiclassed spellcasters are too weak, and it usually puts them on par with pure casters in terms of caster level.
Therefore, I think that the caster level shouldn't drop too low.
A high caster level is simply required to have your spells on a level, which is appropriate to your character level.
Don't forget, that you still lose the faster access to higher level spells!
A large discrepancy in caster level makes spellcasting extremely underpowered at higher levels. This is, of course, especially true for characters that are primarily spellcasters and who absolutely need the caster level to keep up with other characters, to get through spell resistance, to have their scaled spells have an appropriate effect.
For example, take a Wizard 10 / Sorcerer 1. With full caster level, the Sorcerer spells are actually useful for him, even though they are only first level spells. He can cast some effective magic missiles per day, but loses (delays) access to 6th level spells for now. Even with full caster level, this is a bad trade, really, but it can be a nice conceptual idea for a wizard, who has a little spellcasting talent, but who otherwise needed to learn to wield magic the hard way, and which at least is somewhat viable this way.
Or the classic Mystic Theurge. This way he is just one point below a pure caster in terms of caster level, but still three levels behind in terms of spell level accumulation. That seems like a fair trade to me, and my experience also says, that the MT is way underpowered otherwise. This way, he doesn't even need to pick up a feat (Practiced Spellcaster) to become viable, he is viable already, and that's something every class should be without the need to pick up some feat first.
Or the Fighter 12 / Wizard 1. What's the problem with a caster level of 7? This is still way below the norm for that level, but spells are at least somewhat useful with a decent duration. Why penalize such a character even further?
The Fighter 6 / Wizard 1 casting 1st level spells as a 4th level spellcaster likewise seems to be no problem to me. Pure spellcasters have access to 4th level spells by then and cast them at 7th level.
I really see nothing, which speaks against a higher caster level (ranging somewhere between half and full character level that way). However, I see a lot of interesting character concepts which go right to the trashcan (as they do with the normal rules, which overpenalize multiclassed spellcasters), if the caster level is even lower than that.
And that's the reason, why I feel the caster level should be higher.
More viable concepts, but surely no new broken ones.
Can only be good, or not?
Bye
Thanee
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Thanee,
Wait a second. You mean a Wiz8/Sor1 who then takes his 10th level as a Cleric will automatically just be able to cast cleric spells as a 7th level caster?
I know, I know, the Cure Light Wounds will still only do 1d8+5 and it's not like that's going to change anyone's life at 10th level--but it just feels like this is a fix to the game mechanics and somehow violates the spirit of the game.
Dave
Wait a second. You mean a Wiz8/Sor1 who then takes his 10th level as a Cleric will automatically just be able to cast cleric spells as a 7th level caster?
I know, I know, the Cure Light Wounds will still only do 1d8+5 and it's not like that's going to change anyone's life at 10th level--but it just feels like this is a fix to the game mechanics and somehow violates the spirit of the game.
Dave
Thanee
First Post
Yes, in the same way, as a 10th level Cleric who picks up a single level of Fighter suddenly has the base attack of an 8th level Fighter. 
Seems right within the "spirit" there...
The problem is - and this has already been identified by the designers themselves (has been stated by them, that spellcaster multiclassing doesn't work right, Practiced Spellcaster is a "fix" to that problem) - that normally all important abilities stack when you multiclass (BAB, saves, feats, skills, hps, etc), but spellcasting does not, in no way. This problem can be circumvented by giving characters a higher caster level, as shown with the Practiced Spellcaster feat.
Bye
Thanee
Seems right within the "spirit" there...
The problem is - and this has already been identified by the designers themselves (has been stated by them, that spellcaster multiclassing doesn't work right, Practiced Spellcaster is a "fix" to that problem) - that normally all important abilities stack when you multiclass (BAB, saves, feats, skills, hps, etc), but spellcasting does not, in no way. This problem can be circumvented by giving characters a higher caster level, as shown with the Practiced Spellcaster feat.
Bye
Thanee
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Thanee
First Post
Not that a Rgr/Ftr has any use for a A-BCL, but it would be 6, yeah.
Same progression as Wiz BAB for both.
One could use the same (UA optional) rules as for fractional BAB with BCL, of course, in that case it would be a more accurate 7.
D-BCL would be 8 (9.25 with fractional), btw, since the Ranger would use the Clr BAB progression there.
In comparison, a standard (official) Ranger 9/Fighter 5 would have only caster level 4.
bye
Thanee
Same progression as Wiz BAB for both.
One could use the same (UA optional) rules as for fractional BAB with BCL, of course, in that case it would be a more accurate 7.
D-BCL would be 8 (9.25 with fractional), btw, since the Ranger would use the Clr BAB progression there.
In comparison, a standard (official) Ranger 9/Fighter 5 would have only caster level 4.
bye
Thanee
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