Beast Master Ranger Alterations

[Brakkis]

I know I know, you're all thinking "Oh god, another one of these? Really? We get it, the Beast Master is lackluster comparatively." because even I'm getting tired of all the proposed changes to the archetype. However, I felt since a friend and I had put so much work into making the archetype viable for a rather stubborn player who was determined to play Beast Master and yet not so stubborn as to not see how subpar he would be in doing so - again, comparatively - that it would be a shame not to post what we had done and get some feedback.

So, in saying that, I would like to hear from you guys some constructive feedback on this design and what you think might be too much, or not enough if you've the feeling of it. Without further ado, I present the proposed alterations to the Beast Master.


Beast Master

---

The Beast Master archetype embodies a friendship between the civilized races and the beasts of the world. United in focus, beast and ranger work as one to fight the monstrous foes that threaten civilization and the wilderness alike. Emulating the Beast Master archetype means committing yourself to this ideal, working in partnership with an animal as its companion and friend.

Ranger's Companion
At 3rd level, you gain a beast companion that accompanies you on your adventures and is trained to fight alongside you. Your ranger level determines the challenge rating of the beasts you can tame, as shown in the Companions table. At 3rd level, for example, you can tame any beast that has a challenge rating of 1/4 of a medium size or smaller.

Companions
[TABLE="class: outer_border, width: 500, align: left"][TR][TD]Level[/TD][TD="align: center"]Max. CR[/TD][TD="align: center"]Limitations[/TD][TD="align: center"]Subtype[/TD][TD="align: center"]Example[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]3rd[/TD][TD="align: center"]1/4[/TD][TD="align: center"]Medium or smaller[/TD][TD="align: center"]Beast[/TD][TD="align: center"]Wolf[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]6th[/TD][TD="align: center"]1/2[/TD][TD="align: center"]Medium or smaller[/TD][TD="align: center"]Beast[/TD][TD="align: center"]Ape[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]9th[/TD][TD="align: center"]1[/TD][TD="align: center"]Large or smaller[/TD][TD="align: center"]Beast[/TD][TD="align: center"]Lion[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]12th[/TD][TD="align: center"]2[/TD][TD="align: center"]Large or smaller[/TD][TD="align: center"]Beast[/TD][TD="align: center"]Rhinoceros[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]15th[/TD][TD="align: center"]3[/TD][TD="align: center"]Large or smaller[/TD][TD="align: center"]Beast or Monstrosity[/TD][TD="align: center"]Giant Scorpion[/TD][/TR][/TABLE]Add your proficiency bonus to the beast’s AC, attack rolls, and damage rolls, as well as to any saving throws and skills it is proficient in. You roll for it's hit points using the beast's assigned hit die in the PHB or MM (ex. a Wolf gets 1d8 + Con Modifier per level, at 16 the Wolf would roll 16d8 + (16 x Con Modifier)).
The beast obeys your commands as best as it can. It takes its turn on your initiative, though it doesn’t take an action unless you command it to. On your turn, you can verbally command the beast where to move (no action required by you). You can use your action to verbally command it to take the Attack, Dash, Disengage, Dodge, or Help action. Once you have the Extra Attack feature, you can make one weapon attack yourself when you command the beast to take the Attack action. While traveling through your favored terrain with only the beast, you can move stealthily at a normal pace.
If the beast dies, you can obtain another one by spending 8 hours magically bonding with another beast that isn’t hostile to you, either the same type of beast as before or a different one.


Unleashed
Beginning at 7th level, the bond between you and your companion has grown to the point where it instinctively knows where it needs to be in combat, and what it needs to do. On your turn, you can use a bonus action to set your companion loose on the battle field, letting it's feral instincts take over. Your companion gains it's own initiative and it's choice of who to attack is made with a roll determined by the DM. Until the end of combat your companion will relentlessly attack any hostile creature without the need of your instruction, but will not use Dash, Disengage, Dodge or Help. You can spend one full action to bring your companion back under your control.


Bestial Fury
Beginning at 11th level, your beast companion makes two attacks per round, as if it had the Extra Attack feature.


Monster Tamer
Beginning at 15th level, your skills as a Beast Master have reached such a point that you can now tame creatures of a beast-like nature with the monstrosity type. This allows you to tame the creatures listed in the Monstrous Companions table.


Monstrous Companions

[TABLE="class: outer_border, width: 150, align: left"][TR][TD]Creature[/TD][TD]CR[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Cockatrice[/TD][TD]1/2[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Hippogriff[/TD][TD]1[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Griffon[/TD][TD]2[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Basilisk[/TD][TD]3[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Displacer Beast[/TD][TD]3[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Owlbear[/TD][TD]3[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Phase Spider[/TD][TD]3[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Winter Wolf[/TD][TD]3[/TD][/TR][/TABLE]
And there you have it. That is the design for the archetype that we built out and we'll see what you guys think of it. Do try to not be too harsh, and remember - stubborn player. Won't abandon the "I want a ranger with a pet!" stance.

 

[Brakkis]

Reading over this, I do like that monstrous options open up along with the increased CR of the companions. I'm sure a lot of people would prefer the pet to be able to keep on attacking without taking an attack away from the ranger, but I'm not sure I would want to have my companion controlled by the DM since I feel that it should be an extension of the ranger who should control it throughout combat.

The DM doesn't control the pet entirely, just what it will attack. Once you set it loose with Unleashed, it runs on instinct. To account for this, say there are 4 enemies. The DM will assign each enemy a number from 1-20. Now you could roll a d20 and if you land on 1-5, the pet goes for Creature 1. You roll a 11-15, the pet attacks Creature 3. I was thinking of having the DM roll that d20 or you could and just say your number and the DM will say "Okay your pet attacks -----".

The intended use of this is that you have two methods by which you can utilize the pet. You can continue to use the pet in combat the way it's written in the PHB which gives you greater control of the pet's targets and movements, as well as being able to call it back to you in the event it's life is in danger -or- you can use a bonus action to initiate Unleashed and set it off into the fray (Only have to use the bonus action once, after that it's going on it's own into you bring it back under control, or combat ends). It won't run if it's hurt, it won't run to help others if they are hurt. It's focused purely on attack. Which is why, if it's in really bad shape at some point and you want to save it, you've got to use a full action to bring it out of that feral state and call it back to you.

You could probably also keep share spells at level 15 along with monster tamer since, really, monster tamer is expanding the original table, I don't think it is adding so much that share spells needs replacing. As an aside, I feel like share spells should be available at an earlier level.

I sort of felt that adding monstrosity creatures to the pet table and keeping share spells felt too OP. It was one of those "It would have to be one or the other" feelings. If others feel that Monster Tamer and Share Spells aren't too much, let me know.

Was the omission of the ability for the ranger with extra attack to also make a weapon when commanding their pet an oversight?

It was an oversight.

Also, there are other monstrosity creatures that could be added to the table for certain campaign settings. Like the Worg or Ankheg for an evil character, or the Rust Monster for an Underdark campaign. I didn't add them to the table because they wouldn't feel right in a "normal" campaign.

 

[ScuroNotte]

I know I know, you're all thinking "Oh god, another one of these? Really? We get it, the Beast Master is lackluster comparatively." because even I'm getting tired of all the proposed changes to the archetype. However, I felt since a friend and I had put so much work into making the archetype viable for a rather stubborn player who was determined to play Beast Master and yet not so stubborn as to not see how subpar he would be in doing so - again, comparatively - that it would be a shame not to post what we had done and get some feedback.

So, in saying that, I would like to hear from you guys some constructive feedback on this design and what you think might be too much, or not enough if you've the feeling of it. Without further ado, I present the proposed alterations to the Beast Master.


Beast Master

---

The Beast Master archetype embodies a friendship between the civilized races and the beasts of the world.United in focus, beast and ranger work as one to fight the monstrous foes that threaten civilization and the wilderness alike. Emulating the Beast Master archetype means committing yourself to this ideal, working in partnership with an animal as its companion and friend.

Ranger's Companion
At 3rd level, you gain a beast companion that accompanies you on your adventures and is trained to fight alongside you. Your ranger level determines the challenge rating of the beasts you can tame, as shown in the Companions table. At 3rd level, for example, you can tame any beast that has a challenge rating of 1/4 of a medium size or smaller.

Companions
[TABLE="class: outer_border, width: 500, align: left"][TR][TD]Level[/TD][TD="align: center"]Max. CR[/TD][TD]Limitations[/TD][TD]Example[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]3rd[/TD][TD="align: center"]1/4[/TD][TD]Medium or smaller[/TD][TD]Wolf[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]6th[/TD][TD="align: center"]1/2[/TD][TD]Large or smaller[/TD][TD]Black Bear[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]9th[/TD][TD="align: center"]1[/TD][TD]Large or smaller[/TD][TD]Lion[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]12th[/TD][TD="align: center"]2[/TD][TD]Large or smaller[/TD][TD]Rhinoceros[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]15th[/TD][TD="align: center"]3[/TD][TD]Huge or smaller[/TD][TD]Anklyosaurus
[/TD][/TR][/TABLE]Add your proficiency bonus to the beast’s AC, attack rolls, and damage rolls, as well as to any saving throws and skills it is proficient in. You roll for it's hit points using the beast's assigned hit die in the PHB or MM (ex. a Wolf gets 1d8 + Con Modifier per level, at 16 the Wolf would roll 16d8 + (16 x Con Modifier)).
When your companion reaches 6th level, and again at 12th and 18th level you can increase one of it's ability scores by 2, or two of it's ability scores by 1. As normal, you can't increase an ability score above 20 using this feature.
The beast obeys your commands as best as it can. It takes its turn on your initiative, though it doesn’t take an action unless you command it to. On your turn, you can verbally command the beast where to move (no action required by you). You can use your action to verbally command it to take the Attack, Dash, Disengage, Dodge, or Help action. Once you have the Extra Attack feature, you can make one weapon attack yourself when you command the beast to take the Attack action.
While traveling through your favored terrain with only the beast, you can move stealthily at a normal pace.
If the beast dies, you can obtain another one by spending 8 hours magically bonding with another beast that isn’t hostile to you, either the same type of beast as before or a different one.

Unleashed
Beginning at 7th level, the bond between you and your companion has grown to the point where it instinctively knows where it needs to be in combat, and what it needs to do. On your turn, you can use a bonus action to set your companion loose on the battle field, letting it's feral instincts take over. Your companion gains it's own initiative and it's choice of who to attack is made with a roll by the DM. Until the end of combat your companion will relentlessly attack any hostile creature without the need of your instruction, but will not use Dash, Disengage, Dodge or Help. You can spend one full action to bring your companion back under your control.

Bestial Fury
Beginning at 11th level, your beast companion make two attacks per round, as if it had the Extra Attack feature.

Monster Tamer
Beginning at 15th level, your skills as a Beast Master have reached such a point that you can now tame creatures of a beast-like nature with the monstrosity type. This allows you to tame the creatures listed in the Monstrous Companions table.

Monstrous Companions
[TABLE="class: outer_border, width: 150, align: left"][TR][TD]Creature[/TD][TD="align: center"]CR[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Cockatrice[/TD][TD="align: center"]1/2[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Hippogriff[/TD][TD="align: center"]1[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Griffon[/TD][TD="align: center"]2[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Basilisk[/TD][TD="align: center"]3[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Displacer Beast[/TD][TD="align: center"]3[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Owlbear[/TD][TD="align: center"]3[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Phase Spider[/TD][TD="align: center"]3[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Winter Wolf[/TD][TD="align: center"]3[/TD][/TR][/TABLE]
And there you have it. That is the design for the archetype that we built out and we'll see what you guys think of it. Do try to not be too harsh, and remember - stubborn player. Won't abandon the "I want a ranger with a pet!" stance.

I think this is one of the best versions I have read. I have been trying to modify the Beast Master myself and was trying to find a way to increase the CR and try to keep the same beast, unsuccessfully.

The things I had also added was give the Beast Master Ranger another 3rd level ability,
3rd level Aid of the Beast
Anytime both you and your beast companion attack the same creature, and the beast is in melee combat with that creature, you gain sneak attack bonus once per turn.

Levels 1 through 6 1d8
Levels 7 through 14 2d8
Levels 15 through 20 3d8

For the Unleashed ability, do you think it would be acceptable to tell the companion to attack a specific creature the first time, then move to the next creature it wants, unless you use an action to tell it otherwise?

 

[ScuroNotte]

Also, hope you don't mind but "took" some of your ideas

 

[Brakkis]

For the Unleashed ability, do you think it would be acceptable to tell the companion to attack a specific creature the first time, then move to the next creature it wants, unless you use an action to tell it otherwise?

I could see it working if you send the pet to attack a target in the previous round and when you trigger Unleashed on the following turn, that target is the only one in melee range of the companion. At that point it's pretty well focused on what it's already got it's claws into. But if there are 2 or more enemies within melee range of it, I'd say it'd have to be rolled between them.

 

[ScuroNotte]

Unleashed
Beginning at 7th level, the bond between you and your companion has grown to the point where it instinctively knows where it needs to be in combat, and what it needs to do. On your turn, you can use a bonus action to set your companion loose on the battle field, letting it's feral instincts take over. Your companion gains it's own initiative and it's choice of who to attack is made with a roll determined by the DM. Until the end of combat your companion will relentlessly attack any hostile creature without the need of your instruction, but will not use Dash, Disengage, Dodge or Help. You can spend one full action to bring your companion back under your control.

After you sublease the companion, wouldn't it Dash on own to reach opponent?

Also wouldn't it Disengage if seriously injured and was trying to escape?

Or am I overthinking this. Which is probably what I am doing (par for course)

 

[jodyjohnson]

To compare some of the actual numbers involved perhaps you might check out the spreadsheet I did for my houserules:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...te-Ranger-s-Companion-just-a-few-tweaks/page2

First of all, I think you included the key House rule for any kind of campaign that involves non-PC creatures in a moderate level party - and that is HD equal to party level (or leader level).

Both for healing and general staying power.

However after that the balance is really hard to measure without knowing all the variables at the individual table. Is the creature selection going to be pretty free or will it be restricted by location (based on local creatures)?

How high are character stats? Since the creatures are largely by-the-book they are subject to relative stat balance. Also included in this is magic items.

A beast of any sort (CR 3 or less) is hard pressed to measure up to a Vorpal Sword wielded by a character with a Girdle of Storm Giant Strength. Although some can match up to a Flaming Greatsword wielded by a Str 20 character.

Then, there are movement considerations - can your ankylosaurus fit through the door? will be the rhino go in the dungeon? can my giant bat fly in this tight a space? can I carry my boar up the cliff?


But back to your suggestions - I think the feel is simialr to my HR (HD of Ranger level, scaling CR/size, increased default actions). Overall though the scaling CR and Size, plus ASI and full proficiency bonus goes too far. Especially at 7th when you increase the action economy to double normal.

At a creatin point I would just let the players play a Hunter Ranger and add the companion as a scaling NPC. But I'd let everyone in the party have a second character as well. But only with a small group.

 

[Brakkis]

To compare some of the actual numbers involved perhaps you might check out the spreadsheet I did for my houserules:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...te-Ranger-s-Companion-just-a-few-tweaks/page2

First of all, I think you included the key House rule for any kind of campaign that involves non-PC creatures in a moderate level party - and that is HD equal to party level (or leader level).

Both for healing and general staying power.

Basically that was the idea. A consistent issue with the Ranger companion is it's tendency to get killed by a passing fart. The only way around this is generally "Hope the DM doesn't use too many AoE's!" or "Keep the pet next to you" of which neither is a solution. The Ranger level x4 health is garbage scaling and leads to a worthless dead pet at higher levels. So better health, stays alive longer, and thus can be healed if it gets too injured.

However after that the balance is really hard to measure without knowing all the variables at the individual table. Is the creature selection going to be pretty free or will it be restricted by location (based on local creatures)?

I always assumed a general rule of thumb for getting a companion is "Can you actually find it?" I mean really, if you go "I want an Anklyosaurus", the follow-up should be "Do dinosaurs even exist in this campaign setting?". There are water based companions, you need to be playing a water based campaign for them to be tamable. Same goes for land based pets. If you're unable to actually encounter the thing, you're not having one as a companion.

How high are character stats? Since the creatures are largely by-the-book they are subject to relative stat balance. Also included in this is magic items.

A beast of any sort (CR 3 or less) is hard pressed to measure up to a Vorpal Sword wielded by a character with a Girdle of Storm Giant Strength. Although some can match up to a Flaming Greatsword wielded by a Str 20 character.

The pet isn't supposed to measure up against a high level character wielding magic items. The issue is that even with magic items, a high level Ranger Beast Master can't measure up against a wet stick. The idea is to scale the pet to the point that together the two can be a viable option when played alongside other players. Not to make the pet measure up on it's own. And if you just want the Ranger to measure up to them, play the Hunter archetype.

Then, there are movement considerations - can your ankylosaurus fit through the door? will be the rhino go in the dungeon? can my giant bat fly in this tight a space? can I carry my boar up the cliff?

Those same considerations apply even without these changes. They may become more prevalent with the larger size of the pets, but not considerably so unless your campaign heavily features you going down 10ft by 15ft corridors with small doorways.

I'm considering removing the Huge size, replacing that with the Monstrosity taming, and maintaining share spells at 15. There are only 4 huge pets at CR3 (Anklyosaurus, Giant Constrictor Snake, Giant Elk, and Killer Whale) and only 2 of those would be a viable option outside of a specific campaign setting.

 

[jodyjohnson]

What does a normal party loadout at some key levels look like?

Measured against our baseline the Beastmaster beats out the Hunter at 7th easily. But that's pointbuy, low magic items.

 

[Brakkis]

What does a normal party loadout at some key levels look like?

Measured against our baseline the Beastmaster beats out the Hunter at 7th easily. But that's pointbuy, low magic items.

Ugh, I detest the point buy system. 4d6 drop the lowest, as it's always been. But for this scenario, let's give it a look. No magic items. I'm writing this out while I do the numbers and I'm going to post it. If it comes out way ahead of Hunter then I'll certainly do something to drop it down.

Ranger Level - 7th
Starting Dexterity - 15
Weapon - Longbow (1d8)
4th level ASI/Feat - +2 Dex

Hunter (Colossus Slayer) - 1 Target
2d8+12 + 1d8 (24 avg)

Hunter (Colossus Slayer) - 2 Targets
2d8+12 + 1d8 (24 avg)
-or-
1d8+6 +1d8 (14 avg) & 1d8+6 (10 avg)


Hunter (Horde Breaker) - 1 Target
2d8+12 (20 avg)

Hunter (Horde Breaker) - 2 Targets
2d8+12 (20 avg) & 1d8+6 (10 avg)


Ranger Level - 7th
Starting Dexterity - 15
Weapon - Longbow (1d8)
4th level ASI/Feat - +2 Dex
Pet - Black Bear
6th level pet ASI +2 Str

Beast Master (without Unleashed) - 1 Target
2d8+12 (20 avg)
-or-
1d8+6 + 1d6+6 (19 avg) - Bear - Claw
-or-
1d8+6 + 2d4+6 (20 avg) - Bear - Bite

Beast Master (without Unleashed) - 2 Targets
2d8+12 (20 avg)
-or-
1d8+6 (10 avg) & 1d8+6 (10 avg)
-or-
1d8+6 + 1d6+6 (19 avg) - Bear - Claw - Same Target
-or-
1d8+6 (10 avg) & 1d6+6 (9 avg) - Bear - Claw - Different Target
-or-
1d8+6 + 2d4+6 (20 avg) - Bear - Bite - Same Target
-or-
1d8+6 (10 avg) & 2d4+6 (10 avg) - Bear - Bite - Different Target


Beast Master (with Unleashed) - 1 Target
2d8+12 + 1d6+6 (29 avg) - Bear - Claw
-or-
2d8+12 + 2d4+6 (30 avg) - Bear - Bite

Beast Master (with Unleashed) - 2 Targets
2d8+12 + 1d6+6 (29 avg) - Bear - Claw - Same Target
-or-
2d8+12 (20 avg) & 1d6+6 (9 avg) - Bear - Claw - Different Target
-or-
2d8+12 + 2d4+6 (30 avg) - Bear - Bite - Same Target
-or-
2d8+12 (20 avg) & 2d4+6 (10 avg) - Bear - Bite - Different Target

Okay so the math might be off a bit on what's average but I can see that
- Without Unleashed, both Prey choices are ahead of the Beast Master in their respective strengths (Colossus Slayer > Beast Master vs. Single target) & (Horde Breaker > Beast Master vs Multiple targets).
- With Unleashed, the Beast Master breaks even with Horde Breaker on multiple targets.
- With Unleashed, the Beast Master's single target damage is quite a bit ahead of Hunter with Colossus Slayer.

Could drop the Proficiency bonus from the companion's damage rolls, and bring it down to within a couple damage points. The real test is 11, when the Hunter gets Volley and if you're facing multiple targets at a time or a boss. Could alter Unleashed so that it also removes the Ranger's proficiency bonus from the Companion while it's in effect. The third option is to drop the 3 ASI's the Companion gets with this build change.

Personally I feel like you go Hunter (Horde Breaker) if your campaign involves fighting multiple enemies at a time more frequently, and if it's a few multiple enemy skirmishes with big bosses more often, go Beast Master. Currently it's go Hunter regardless, ignore Beast Master.