Being non-judgmental about play styles
- Thread starter OnlineDM
- Start date
It's the same with me.
I have strong opinions on various playstyles. Not only I have my personal preferences, I also see some of them as inherently more and some as inherently less valuable.
And I am not ashamed of being judgmental. I just don't feel a need to force my viewpoint on people - if it's not about a game I'm taking part in, and I'm not asked for opinion, I'll keep it to myself.
I have strong opinions on various playstyles. Not only I have my personal preferences, I also see some of them as inherently more and some as inherently less valuable.
And I am not ashamed of being judgmental. I just don't feel a need to force my viewpoint on people - if it's not about a game I'm taking part in, and I'm not asked for opinion, I'll keep it to myself.
OnlineDM
Adventurer
This is very interesting. I'm surprised to see that most of the responses are essentially, "It's okay to be judgmental about play styles you don't like." It's not really what I was looking for, but it's still enlightening to see that most people are comfortable with the fact that there are certain play styles they really don't like, and therefore they simply try not to game with those people.
[MENTION=2303]Starfox[/MENTION]: Thanks for the tip on the Robin Laws article (I believe you're referring to this one). In my original blog post on the topic I discussed the various play styles as described in the D&D4e Dungeon Master Guide; I believe that section of the book was heavily based on the Robin Laws article.
My problem isn't that I don't UNDERSTAND Power Gamers or how to put things in a game that they'll enjoy; it's that I don't like the way they play. And I want to get over that. Maybe I can't (and it sounds like the response here so far is, "No, you can't, so be at peace with that fact."). I'm not willing to give up just yet, though!
[MENTION=23240]steenan[/MENTION]: To be clear, I'm not talking about people who bash various play styles on places like EN World; I'm saying that in the games that I personally play in, I find myself grinding my teeth when playing with Power Gamers. My goal is to learn how to stop grinding my teeth (figuratively speaking - no dentistry suggestions, please!).
[MENTION=2303]Starfox[/MENTION]: Thanks for the tip on the Robin Laws article (I believe you're referring to this one). In my original blog post on the topic I discussed the various play styles as described in the D&D4e Dungeon Master Guide; I believe that section of the book was heavily based on the Robin Laws article.
My problem isn't that I don't UNDERSTAND Power Gamers or how to put things in a game that they'll enjoy; it's that I don't like the way they play. And I want to get over that. Maybe I can't (and it sounds like the response here so far is, "No, you can't, so be at peace with that fact."). I'm not willing to give up just yet, though!
[MENTION=23240]steenan[/MENTION]: To be clear, I'm not talking about people who bash various play styles on places like EN World; I'm saying that in the games that I personally play in, I find myself grinding my teeth when playing with Power Gamers. My goal is to learn how to stop grinding my teeth (figuratively speaking - no dentistry suggestions, please!).
Bedrockgames
I post in the voice of Christopher Walken
At the end of the day this is a game and it is about the people at the table. In the past I didn't like players who made too many builds or min/maxed. But then I ran a campaign full of players who did so. Because they were on the same page, I learned to embrace it in order to give them the game they wanted. It meant I had to create encounters and NPCs with power builds in mind. It wasn't the flavor of game I normally ran, but I did have a good time in the end (mostly because everyone appeared to be enjoying themselves).
We are such a small community, I think being judgmental of other peoples' play styles isn't very useful. That doesn't mean you have to play in a powergame campaign if you find it boring though.
This goes beyond powergaming. This is an issue you see with all playstyles (just look at the debates on different RPG forums about playstyles and badwrongfun). I can have fun in any game, if I know what peoples' expectations are. But I have a lot more trouble enjoying myself if people are angrily debating the best way to play the game.
Pickles JG
First Post
Don't be judgemental but don't play with people who play in styles you don't like. I dont like Magic the Gathering but I find it easy enough not to play it. Playstyle in RPGs is just a more subtle version of this.
It is also why it's harder to play RPGs with stangers than boardgames with CCGs in the middle.
It is also why it's harder to play RPGs with stangers than boardgames with CCGs in the middle.
I've left one game in my role-playing career and that was mainly due to some heavy power-gaming tendencies in that game. I've never understood power-gaming and it doesn't interest me as a playstyle. But, by all reports, my friends in that group had a great game, and much fun.
There's a world of difference between saying 'I don't enjoy RPing with powergamers' and 'powergaming is bad'. I'm comfortable with my preferences, but I try not to present them as truths.
There's a world of difference between saying 'I don't enjoy RPing with powergamers' and 'powergaming is bad'. I'm comfortable with my preferences, but I try not to present them as truths.
I am not judgmental about other people's play styles. That said there are some that I don't want to play with or DM for. It is not that I think they are playing wrong its that I think some styles are incompatible and the end result is usually a lot of friction at the gaming table.
On the issue pf powergamers in particular I have found that you can divide them into two categories the ones who want an awesome character built within the spirit of the rules, and ones who want an uber powered character and don't care if what they are building is not really in the spirit of the rules.
I can deal with the first. My roommate is one. The reason she is a powergamer is because she likes having a super competent character. That is her fantasy. She isn't doing it to dominate the table or make the DM's job harder.
The second type imo are selfish because those type characters tend to dominate the play force the DM to up the challenges just to stop the cake walk that usually goes on with these type of characters.
On the issue pf powergamers in particular I have found that you can divide them into two categories the ones who want an awesome character built within the spirit of the rules, and ones who want an uber powered character and don't care if what they are building is not really in the spirit of the rules.
I can deal with the first. My roommate is one. The reason she is a powergamer is because she likes having a super competent character. That is her fantasy. She isn't doing it to dominate the table or make the DM's job harder.
The second type imo are selfish because those type characters tend to dominate the play force the DM to up the challenges just to stop the cake walk that usually goes on with these type of characters.
Starfox
Hero
In the end, powergaming is a rules issue to me.
I will 'fess up. I like to make strong builds in games that allow it. And some games cater very much to that playstyle - most distinctly D&D 3.5 and 4. Because resources in these games are so thin and so tightly controlled, it feels like you HAVE to optimize. Feats in particular.
Compare this to Mutants and Masterminds 2. That one is also optimizeable, but because you do not have so strict controls, particularly because you can bye any number of feats you like at any level. You are no longer compelled to make a particular build at level 3 in order to get ride-by attack at level 6 (or whatever it is you are building for).
My conclusion from this and numerous other examples is that strictly balanced class systems lead to optimization, while free build point systems do not. In other words, if you detest power gaming, try removing some of the constraints on it. Maybe you'll find, like I did, that with more freedom players assume more responsibility?
I will 'fess up. I like to make strong builds in games that allow it. And some games cater very much to that playstyle - most distinctly D&D 3.5 and 4. Because resources in these games are so thin and so tightly controlled, it feels like you HAVE to optimize. Feats in particular.
Compare this to Mutants and Masterminds 2. That one is also optimizeable, but because you do not have so strict controls, particularly because you can bye any number of feats you like at any level. You are no longer compelled to make a particular build at level 3 in order to get ride-by attack at level 6 (or whatever it is you are building for).
My conclusion from this and numerous other examples is that strictly balanced class systems lead to optimization, while free build point systems do not. In other words, if you detest power gaming, try removing some of the constraints on it. Maybe you'll find, like I did, that with more freedom players assume more responsibility?
Starfox
Hero
There are lots of styles I dislike - '3e splatbook munchkinism', turtling, and won't-speak-in-character are three of them. I'm comfy in my judgementalism, though.
What is Turtling?
Refusing to engage with the setting, hiding away from everything. In extreme cases it becomes paranoia (I had a player with mild paranoia who was an extreme turtle), assuming all NPCs are hostile, all are plotting against you (and know your plans), there are assassins everywhere, etc. Wizards who always dress as commoners so they don't get targetted, Clerics who hide the evidence of their faith.
A milder form is the just-sit-in-the-tavern, won't bite on any plot hooks or do anything proactive. This can be equally frustrating.
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