belt of might? +1 or +2 to all scores

[Votan]

I would let a wizard moke one!

It is also reasonable to discount the price because you have to buy the entire package. It is a nice item due to using fewer slots. But, you are guarenteed to get bonuses that are not as valauble as others. I think the advantages and disadvantages seem to balance rather well, all things considered, so that the price is probably reasonably fair.

I'd certainly allow it to be crafted in a game that I was running. It'd be unlikely for me to place one in it, however, for obvious reasons (it is hard to divide it as an item of loot and arguments over a strong item do not appear to improve the game.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Realistically, no one will care all that much about more than 3-4 stats. (Monk/Paladin? Bard/Wizard? Possible counterexamples seem pretty contrived to me.)

The other 2-3 boosts are a nice to have, but not worth paying even 20-25% of the "correct" price for those minor incremental boosts.

IMHO, yes, a character that desperately wanted 6 stats boosted should be willing to pay ~300k for this item, but practically speaking 200k is perfectly reasonable.

 

[saucercrab]

No reasonable build needs all 6 stats maxed out. Thus subjective or not subjective, there is useless stuff bundled in with the useful stuff.

Whether the build needs it or not, it's getting the same benefits as another character.

By your reasoning, if something is less useful for one character than another, it's cheaper to make it (& sell it) for/to the former?

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Whether the build needs it or not, it's getting the same benefits as another character.

By your reasoning, if something is less useful for one character than another, it's cheaper to make it (& sell it) for/to the former?

"Same benefits" means what?

What matters is whether a typical PC gains roughtly 200k worth of benefit for +6 to 6 stats when measured against reasonable alternatives that are likely to be available, based on the yardstick of what we can see in the DMG.

The Fighter loves the +6 Str, Con, Dex, Wis, and does not care about the rest. The Wizard loves the +6 Int, Con, Dex, and does not care about the rest.

Are they getting the same benefits? Not precisely, but both are getting about 200k worth of boost.

If you have a better number, please feel free to put it forward. But claiming that 6 stats is always worth exactly full formula price is going to get demolished by a simple perusal of the DMG for price comparison.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Realistically, no one will care all that much about more than 3-4 stats.

As soon as you want 4 stats, you're getting a discount on those you actually want, and get those you don't want as bad thrown in for free. Even with 3 needed ones, you're getting the others for a very cheap price.

It surely isn't for everyone, but it's not that rare, either. Let's look at the base classes:

Fighter: Str and Con are a must for your average fighter, with Dex being important, too. You can kinda ignore Int and Cha, but Wis is helpful to get at least a fighting chance, as it were, to make will saves. Might benefit from this.

Barbarian: Similar to fighters, but Dex is more important due to armour limitations. Might get interesting, if only to have the gloves free for gloves of storing.

Paladin: Str, Con and Cha are a must. Int is not that important, and neither is Dex, but Wis is useful, too. Will definetly find those useful to get gloves of storing (to better cast and fight), cloaks of resistance, and amulets of natural armour and still getting their ability scores buffed

Ranger: Needs Str, Dex, Con, and some Wis. Will find it useful, to get bracers of archery, gloves of storing periapts of wisdom, and so on

Monk: With Str, Dex, Con and Wis needed a lot, it's almost a must - Int and Cha won't hurt (and just think of the Monk/Paladin combos).

Cleric: Needs Con and Wis (Str is taken Care of by Divine Power). Cha is also often quite helfpul because of Divine Feats (and turning). Won't spit at the rest.

Druid: Well, since they spend a lot of time in other shapes, they might not be too keen on many magic items, either, unless they somehow make them work in the wild shape. In that case, they'll need Str, Dex, Con, Wis (and the other two won't hurt, either)

Bard: Your average bard needs Dex, Int, Cha (and Str, Con and Wis don't exactly hurt), and would like to use a cloak of resistance, gloves of storing, bracers of archery (depending on style)

Rogue: Similar to the Bard, a well-rounded rogue will need most stats - Str for fighting (unless he uses weapon finesse) and skills (though there are feats for that, too), Dex (no doubt), Con (like everyone), Int (for several key skills), Wis (for perception skills and will saves), Cha (for social skiils, UMD) - and be more than happy to be able to use numerous items, such like boots of speed, gloves of storing, bracers of archery, cloaks of resistance, amulets of nat. armour, and so on.

Wiz/Sor: Actually the least likely to take those, since they have one big primary ability (Int or Cha) and two secondary ones (Dex, Con), but still not that bad.

 

[Darklone]

Multiclassed characters (and monks) always need as many stat boosts as possible, I can't remember one char I played in the last 10 years that wouldn't have loved to get that +2 to all attributes item.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

It breaks the pricing guidelines, plain & simple. Yes, I know, guidelines, not rules; but it's still cheaper than buying an equivalent-bonus item for each ability score. Which makes no sense.

That nearly brain-dead orc still gets better saves across the board, Initiative & possibly AC, more skill points, & that all-important higher bonus to Intimidate. (Okay, that last one is pretty weak, but the item still provides benefits that exceed it's supposed value compared to equivalent items.)

Well, consider that the orc probably wants more than a +2 to his Str and Con, and will value a Belt of Giant Strength +4 and an Amulet of Health +4 more than +2 to every stat. Why would he care about +2 to Int and Cha? The reason why this item breaks the pricing guidelines is because in D&D it's better to focus on one thing and excel rather than try to keep up in six. The only PC I've ever seen show more than a passing interest in this item was a chameleon.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Its true that this owuld be more important for say, a Paladin/Rogue, than a Wizard, on account of MAD, but then again, so is a real nice sword. Should the word be cheaper becuase it kinda sucks for a wizard?

How about the inverse? If a particular sword is just as good for a wizard as it is for a fighter, should it be more expensive than a regular sword?

 

[Thanee]

'S funny, I can't find anything in the section on magic item creation where it says there's a discount/price break on bundling separate magic items into a single form. The sidebar on page 282 seems to state the opposite, in fact.

Of course, because it is based on different assumptions.

When a player creates a magic item in a fashion, that it combines multiple highly useful bonuses, then there should no discount for sure. Hence the general rule.

OTOH, when you bundle multiple bonuses together, of which only some might be truely useful, then a discount is in order.

There are multiple examples, where this has been done already. This is just one of them.

BTW, pricing a magic item after the pricing guidelines in the DMG is only the second step, which should only be used when the first step fails, which is setting the price somewhat arbitrarily by comparing it to existing items.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Votan]

BTW, pricing a magic item after the pricing guidelines in the DMG is only the second step, which should only be used when the first step fails, which is setting the price somewhat arbitrarily by comparing it to existing items.

Agreed -- there are many items that break the pricing structure which is, at best, a guideline. An item that is command word activated Quickened True Strike would cost 81,000 GP for a +20 to hit. This seems like a bargain compared to a +5 sword which costs 50,000 GP; especially if it is a 2 handed weapon used in conjunction with power attack.