D&D 4E Ben Riggs' "What the Heck Happened with 4th Edition?" seminar at Gen Con 2023


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So now not liking or wanting a specific feature introduced in 4e to be added into 5e is considered being anti-4e? That's an absurd position.

That is not what people are objecting to, and I think you know that. It went FAR beyond just the merits of the feature as a prospective part of 5e.

But even just in terms of 5e, who are you to care what additions to 5e other people have to use in their games? Even just taken at that level it is inherently a fairly uncharitable position, at best. You don't have to play one, allow one in games you GM, nor even play in games where it is allowed at all if you don't wish. It wouldn't even have been a core part of 5e, which is already out there and set in stone, you all won THAT little vicious battle LONG AGO.
 



Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
Once again for the umpteenth time I am never upset by people's preferences. Those Warlord threads did not just feature people discussing their preferences. They also featured bizarre psychoanalysis of how even liking to play that archetype meant you wanted to boss around your fellow players and absurd shouting wounds back on takes in a game where you recover all hit points sleeping overnight. It's not just I don't like it. It's this thing is bad, and you should feel bad for liking it (and in the case of the Warlord it might even mean you are a bad person).

This is the strong throughline of a lot of online 4e criticism. It never stops at the game. It instead puts those who enjoy/enjoyed the game in the crossfire by assuming they don't care about things like coherency, game lore (which many 4e fans care about deeply) and even roleplaying. In particular this bizarre caricature of a 4e fan as only caring about tactical combat when for many of us a big part of what we like about the game was wanting to have the game work with less combat and having binding mechanics for stuff besides fighting.
That's unfortunate, but in my experience I have seen 4e proponents that give the strong impression that it's not possible to dislike 4e if you understand how it works, and that's just not true.
 

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
A little update about the facebook thread I talked about earlier, a new message pop up!

« Forget about 4e, play 3.5 or 5e instead. thumbs up emoji I’ve played 4e and it doesn’t feel like DnD compared to 2nd, 3rd or 5e. It’s like the Windows 8 of WotC. »

So constructive…
I'm sure that person is at least being honest about their feelings, although they could have been more clear about it being their opinion. 4e doesn't feel like D&D to them.
 

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