Best Magic System

[Merlion]

I have two problems with spell slots. The first, which appears to be solved by the arcana unearthed is the inflexibility of the system. You really have to know what you are going up against when you prepare your spells. The second, which is not solved by any mana point or spell slot system to my knowledge, is the lack of longevity the caster has as compared to the fighter. The fighter fights and fights and fights all day long. The caster casts a certain amount of spells, and then is done. The other effect of this is that casters end up being overpowered for short periods of time as compared to fighters as some kind of 'balance.'

Well, I think this problem...if it really is one...is nearly impossible to totally surmount. It would be hard to balance a magic system where casters had unlimited use of their powers. The only two real avenues would be to make the magical effects much less powerful, or create some sort of failure mechanic that actually made them fail somewhat frequently...something most people would deeply dislike.

The idea that a spellcasters ability to use magic has limits is more or less universal in fantasy, wether its expressed through physical and/or mental fatigue, or simply not being able to cast/work magic anymore.

Its the tradeoff characters always face. Warriors can keep on fightning, but thats pretty much all they can do. Mages run out of steam eventually, but they can create a wide range of effects...not just attack and defense, but various alterations of reality.


I would have a look at the Recharge Magic system in Unearthed Arcana, and also some of the sub variants of the other systems in there.


However, I really dont see this as being that much of an issue, personally. A caster's longevity is only really a big issue at low levels, when they can cast only a few spells per day. Later on, unless you run a *lot* of encounters, a spellcaster is still going to be able to always contribute.

I'd focus less on that, and more on making a system that is enjoyable to use, and that reflects as many depictions of fantasy magic use as possible.

 

[Eosin the Red]

Where is the MIDNIGHT button?

 

[Desdichado]

Where is the MIDNIGHT button?

Earlier, I almost asked where the Cthulhu button was...

 

[Psion]

The fighter fights and fights and fights all day long. The caster casts a certain amount of spells, and then is done. The other effect of this is that casters end up being overpowered for short periods of time as compared to fighters as some kind of 'balance.'

Well, the only alternatives are to make the spellcaster's spells very limited in impact or simply punt and accept that mages are more powerful character types (like Ars Magica). Otherwise, the breadth of utility of the mage makes them a spotlight hog/preferred choice.

 

[interwyrm]

I toyed with the idea of making casters not able to do any damage directly with spells. They would be limited to battlefield control mostly, and outside of combat could do the raise dead type of stuff. Could be fun... you'd have to get creative and work as a team *shudder*

 

[Merlion]

I toyed with the idea of making casters not able to do any damage directly with spells.

That makes no sense. Why should spellcasters be unable to deal damage when other classes can?


Its also archtypally strange since magic users in every book, movie, game, etc of a fantasy sort are able to attack with magic in some way or other (yes I know there are exceptions of various kinds, but generally mages have attack options)

 

[interwyrm]

Well... that's why I only toyed with the idea for a while. Really though, most instances I can think of concerning fantasy mages, they do not do direct damage. They weaken people, or force them a la domination to do things against their will. I can only think of two (tim and one from dragonlance) slinging fireballs around.

That idea didn't stem from literature, it stemmed from thoughts what might be fun.

 

[VirgilCaine]

The first, which appears to be solved by the arcana unearthed is the inflexibility of the system. You really have to know what you are going up against when you prepare your spells.

Could you give some examples of this?

The second, which is not solved by any mana point or spell slot system to my knowledge, is the lack of longevity the caster has as compared to the fighter. The fighter fights and fights and fights all day long. The caster casts a certain amount of spells, and then is done. The other effect of this is that casters end up being overpowered for short periods of time as compared to fighters as some kind of 'balance.'

How do you reconcile this line of thinking with the creation of scrolls, wands, staves and even wondrous items that allow for unlimited use of a spell?

 

[Razuur]

If you are sticking with Vancian, then AE is the way to go hands down. That or the Wheel of Time system.

If you want flexible, then Black Company or Tal 20 are the way to go.

I use all of the above in my games (in fact I merge some together!) and have quite the nifty system ironed out.

Razuur

 

[interwyrm]

Could you give some examples of this?

I guess I'm unaware of the catch-all spells which will serve you well in every situation.

How do you reconcile this line of thinking with the creation of scrolls, wands, staves and even wondrous items that allow for unlimited use of a spell?

Scrolls increase the versatility of the caster, but cost resources.
Wands and staves also increase the versatility of the caster, and somewhat increase the longevity of the caster, but do so at significant cost of resources.
Unlimited use wondrous items, I would argue, are typically unbalanced.

I have a problem with casters being more powerful than other characters and less useful for extended adventuring. Either they run out of spells by the end of the day, or they start running out of resources like scrolls and wands during the adventure. It discourages teamwork because either the rest of the party wants to keep going and the caster has to resort to expending their costly resources, which they probably are loathe to do, or the caster insists that the party rest.

Characters IMO should have the same longevity and same power level, but be able to do distinctly different things. That's why I was looking at removing direct damage spells from casters.

Then again... we all know your position on the issue.