Best way to kill a dragon?
- Thread starter Nvvyn
- Start date
Magus the Purifier
First Post
Don't have the books with me but what about a wall of fire energy substitution cold?
Since you are in Forgotten Realms buy a Potion of Time Stop.
They are costly for a one use item but most small cities will have them.
Those extra rounds will really help.
Edit- And before people start saying there is no such thing as a Potion of Time Stop they should check Master Alchemist in MoF.
They are costly for a one use item but most small cities will have them.
Those extra rounds will really help.
Edit- And before people start saying there is no such thing as a Potion of Time Stop they should check Master Alchemist in MoF.
Last edited:
FireLance
Legend
Your best bet may be to use Ice Knife (Sor/Wiz 2) from Tome and Blood. It creates an ice missile that does 1d8 piercing damage, 1d8 cold damage and (this is the important part) 2 points of cold Dexterity damage.
Since even the most powerful red dragon has an average Dexterity of 10, 5 hits will render it helpless. You may need less if you manage a critical hit for double damage or if you can persuade your DM that "cold" Dexterity damage means that it will do 4 points of Dexterity damage against a Fire creature.
In order to make sure that you hit, prepare True Strike, quickened if possible so you can get it off in the same round that you cast Ice Knife. Since you're a 12th level caster, you can even use Twin Spell on Ice Knife to double its effect.
Make sure your protections are up, especially against fire. Summon plenty of fire-immune creatures as well (imps, hell hounds and magmin are 4th-level summons), to provide flanking partners and as cannon fodder.
You still have to beat its spell resistance, though. And really really hope that the dragon doesn't have access to Globe (or Minor Globe) of Invulnurability (which will negate all low-level spells) or any way to cure ability damage, like Restoration (or its greater and lesser versions) or Heal.
Since even the most powerful red dragon has an average Dexterity of 10, 5 hits will render it helpless. You may need less if you manage a critical hit for double damage or if you can persuade your DM that "cold" Dexterity damage means that it will do 4 points of Dexterity damage against a Fire creature.
In order to make sure that you hit, prepare True Strike, quickened if possible so you can get it off in the same round that you cast Ice Knife. Since you're a 12th level caster, you can even use Twin Spell on Ice Knife to double its effect.
Make sure your protections are up, especially against fire. Summon plenty of fire-immune creatures as well (imps, hell hounds and magmin are 4th-level summons), to provide flanking partners and as cannon fodder.
You still have to beat its spell resistance, though. And really really hope that the dragon doesn't have access to Globe (or Minor Globe) of Invulnurability (which will negate all low-level spells) or any way to cure ability damage, like Restoration (or its greater and lesser versions) or Heal.
Well i doubt you have access to it cause its a level
Bard 6, Sorc/Wiz 8 ....kind of of spell..its in the Tome and Blood...
its called Great Shout....its primary effect is a line of intense sonic energy 5 ft high and 5 ft wide and as long as ( Range: Close (25ft +5ft/ 2 levels)...
Stone, crystal and metal objects in the area take 20d6 points of damage...the secondary effect is a cone of sound centered on the line of creatures within the cone take 10d6 points of damage and are stunned for one round and deafened for 4d6 rounds. Any exposed brittle or crystalline objects or crystalline creature takes 1d6 points of damage per caster level (max 20d6)...
Would be great if you went up to the mouth of the cave and gave out a big holler with this puppy....but i doubt you can...
if you have Rituals and Relics you could always cast Declaration of Death on it..and if it works...well it falls for a bit believing thats its dead..i honestly dont think that the spell will last 10 rounds because thats alot of chances to save..and its using the will save....but if it makes it 10 rounds without successing in a will save... it starts making fortitude saves saves as well at a dc of 12...and adding +1 for each time it fails the fortitude save...if it ever fails the fortitude save it really dies...
but if it ever gets the will save it wakes up....but while its thinking its dead you could whip the crap out of it...
Mabe Bigsbys forceful hand could be a good distraction for you? it keeps pushing the bugger away...lol...
Shadow Smash from relics and rituals would be great if it didnt way more than 2lbs/per level....lol....cause then you could turn it into a shadow and bring a torch with you and spread light until him and destroy him..but ohwell...
You could always cast a wall of stone uses the cave walls..and trap the bugger in there....and then like cast wall of force at the very intrance of the cave...so that when he breaks through the stone..he will come charging out of there...and when he goes to leap out of there and take flight..mabe when he hits that wall full force , since the wall is inpenitrible, he may just break his neck...or atleast take some major damage from the high impact..and possibly be stunned...*shrugs*
Or what you cuold do is cas Wall of stone a bit inside of the cave..then before he breaks through..cast Transmute Rock into mud....onto the ground between the wall of stone and the entrance of the cave....and hopefully you can make it deep enough...and then cast wall of force at the cave entrance...mabe when he crashes into your wall of force...he gets knocked out for accouple rounds and drowns in the mud?
if you set the stone to mud spell close enough to the entrance and the Wall of stone back enough to give the dragon some running room...its very possible he could drown in 5 feet deep of mud...
anyways just some wacky suggestions...hope they help ya
Bard 6, Sorc/Wiz 8 ....kind of of spell..its in the Tome and Blood...
its called Great Shout....its primary effect is a line of intense sonic energy 5 ft high and 5 ft wide and as long as ( Range: Close (25ft +5ft/ 2 levels)...
Stone, crystal and metal objects in the area take 20d6 points of damage...the secondary effect is a cone of sound centered on the line of creatures within the cone take 10d6 points of damage and are stunned for one round and deafened for 4d6 rounds. Any exposed brittle or crystalline objects or crystalline creature takes 1d6 points of damage per caster level (max 20d6)...
Would be great if you went up to the mouth of the cave and gave out a big holler with this puppy....but i doubt you can...
if you have Rituals and Relics you could always cast Declaration of Death on it..and if it works...well it falls for a bit believing thats its dead..i honestly dont think that the spell will last 10 rounds because thats alot of chances to save..and its using the will save....but if it makes it 10 rounds without successing in a will save... it starts making fortitude saves saves as well at a dc of 12...and adding +1 for each time it fails the fortitude save...if it ever fails the fortitude save it really dies...
but if it ever gets the will save it wakes up....but while its thinking its dead you could whip the crap out of it...
Mabe Bigsbys forceful hand could be a good distraction for you? it keeps pushing the bugger away...lol...
Shadow Smash from relics and rituals would be great if it didnt way more than 2lbs/per level....lol....cause then you could turn it into a shadow and bring a torch with you and spread light until him and destroy him..but ohwell...
You could always cast a wall of stone uses the cave walls..and trap the bugger in there....and then like cast wall of force at the very intrance of the cave...so that when he breaks through the stone..he will come charging out of there...and when he goes to leap out of there and take flight..mabe when he hits that wall full force , since the wall is inpenitrible, he may just break his neck...or atleast take some major damage from the high impact..and possibly be stunned...*shrugs*
Or what you cuold do is cas Wall of stone a bit inside of the cave..then before he breaks through..cast Transmute Rock into mud....onto the ground between the wall of stone and the entrance of the cave....and hopefully you can make it deep enough...and then cast wall of force at the cave entrance...mabe when he crashes into your wall of force...he gets knocked out for accouple rounds and drowns in the mud?
if you set the stone to mud spell close enough to the entrance and the Wall of stone back enough to give the dragon some running room...its very possible he could drown in 5 feet deep of mud...
anyways just some wacky suggestions...hope they help ya
reiella
Explorer
Ancient Red Dragon, SR 28.
Caster level 12.
Need a 16 on the die roll minimum to match the SR. So roughly a 25%, although if you've taken Penetration feats, that boosts a slight bit.
I'd be more worried about that 34 DC fear aura though. Will+1(Rogue), Will+4(Wizard), Will+5 (Arcane Trickster). So about +10 from class levels. You're going need some respectable resistance help even with exception stats and a +6 resistance cloak. Suggest possibly trying to get a Remove Fear or similiar cast on yourself before going in there.
Fort save dependant spells are hard, +28 Fort Save (29 minimum save effect, and you don't look like a DC min/max archmage freak so most likly no contact). Will saves are at +26 (27 minimum. another unlikly to be able to get DC that high without the Tatoo Magic redundant focus). Reflex at +19 (20 minimum) is your best bet and only one likly to be able to break their saves at all without Save Focus. Downside is that Reflex spells lack Save or Die effects.
Acid Fog might be useful except for Ancient Red Dragons having Wing Buffet.
Antimagic Field is just simply a bad idea, it opens you up far too much to Flyby attack pain and most of your defenses negated.
Geas might be worth while, although that's a long term effect, and the secondary effects are Fort save (ie, they're going ot be made).
Chain Lightning will be able to deal damage, but will only really be able to splat with the Primary Damage.
Otiluke's Freezing Sphere is good, go with Cold Ray (if you can manage to get it flanked, you get bonus Sneak attack damage, and their's no save, and cold damage). It is a ranged touch, which nets to about AC 6 for an ancient red dragon (12d6 fire subtype doubled to 24d6, it's something), better suggestion than going with Chain Lightning.
Displacement, for obvious reasons.
Downsides I see is you just not being about to dish out enough damage before depleting your spell resources to kill it, even the 24d6+7d6 from sneak attack averages 108 or 108 points of damage, and they have around 527 hp.
Note about impromptu sneak attack is it actually bars getting bonus damage (no crits, no bonus damage, etc). [ Edit BAH this is wrong, misread the stupid line ]
Blindsight = True Sight without the spell and not bypassable but doesn't see Ethereal.
Ancient Red Dragons cast spells as a 15th level sorcerer, so possible.
LMAO Orco, adding that to my sig now
too funny.
Caster level 12.
Need a 16 on the die roll minimum to match the SR. So roughly a 25%, although if you've taken Penetration feats, that boosts a slight bit.
I'd be more worried about that 34 DC fear aura though. Will+1(Rogue), Will+4(Wizard), Will+5 (Arcane Trickster). So about +10 from class levels. You're going need some respectable resistance help even with exception stats and a +6 resistance cloak. Suggest possibly trying to get a Remove Fear or similiar cast on yourself before going in there.
Fort save dependant spells are hard, +28 Fort Save (29 minimum save effect, and you don't look like a DC min/max archmage freak so most likly no contact). Will saves are at +26 (27 minimum. another unlikly to be able to get DC that high without the Tatoo Magic redundant focus). Reflex at +19 (20 minimum) is your best bet and only one likly to be able to break their saves at all without Save Focus. Downside is that Reflex spells lack Save or Die effects.
Acid Fog might be useful except for Ancient Red Dragons having Wing Buffet.
Antimagic Field is just simply a bad idea, it opens you up far too much to Flyby attack pain and most of your defenses negated.
Geas might be worth while, although that's a long term effect, and the secondary effects are Fort save (ie, they're going ot be made).
Chain Lightning will be able to deal damage, but will only really be able to splat with the Primary Damage.
Otiluke's Freezing Sphere is good, go with Cold Ray (if you can manage to get it flanked, you get bonus Sneak attack damage, and their's no save, and cold damage). It is a ranged touch, which nets to about AC 6 for an ancient red dragon (12d6 fire subtype doubled to 24d6, it's something), better suggestion than going with Chain Lightning.
Displacement, for obvious reasons.
Downsides I see is you just not being about to dish out enough damage before depleting your spell resources to kill it, even the 24d6+7d6 from sneak attack averages 108 or 108 points of damage, and they have around 527 hp.
Note about impromptu sneak attack is it actually bars getting bonus damage (no crits, no bonus damage, etc). [ Edit BAH this is wrong, misread the stupid line ]
Blindsight = True Sight without the spell and not bypassable but doesn't see Ethereal.
Ancient Red Dragons cast spells as a 15th level sorcerer, so possible.
LMAO Orco, adding that to my sig now
too funny.
Last edited:
Ok, I been lookin thourgh my stuff, got some AWESOME idea's.
1)
First of all, I have Ghost Form spell, this allows me to basically be an incorporeal form. I can freely move through solid objects, with this in mind, do you think it be possible for me (I have haste on, and fly spell which gives me speed 90 ft) to be in a wall, come out cast 2 spells for my action and extra partial action, than move back into the wall? Cuz If i am correct, you can cast 1 spell in a round and move as well, meaning with haste u could do the same and also 1 extra partial action, meaning 1 more spell.
Basically I'd come out cast a one spell and go back in the wall, the ghost form lasts like 1 minute per level, 12 minutes.. long time
2)
Another thought.. I have(edit) the Otilukes freezing orb spell.. It does 1d6/ caster lvl, so 12d6. no save, only SR. I also have 2 impromptu sneak attacks, and I can cast 2 of these spells. With my house rules in mind, i'd do 12d6 dmg with both spells, then 7d6 twice for sneak attack. so basically 12d6+12d6+7d6+7d6
that equals 38d6 dmg average of 114 dmg and all cold damage is doubled, so I could do 228 damage on average in one round if I am hasted, not too mention I can still do a quickened spell as a free action.
So, now I'm in wall, come out do freezing sphere, 114 dmg, do a quickened Ice knife, or something else... then move back in wall, same thing next round...
3)
Antoher thought, the 4th level spell shield... you can cast it to protect against fire or ice, and if u pick to protect vrs fire, it does 1d6+ 1 per caster level of ice dmg when something melee's you. It also halves all fire dmg, and if u make ur reflex save, u take no dmg. Basically everytime the guy attacked me, (he gets like 10 attacks a round, lol he takes 2d6+24 and thats every attack. I also have stoneskin on, so i'll take 10 dmg less per round, not that it will matter.
4)
Question on the above spell (fire shield) My character has improved evasion, meaning he takes half dmg on a failed reflex save, and NO dmg on a saved reflex save, so with improved evasion and fire shield combined, would I never take the damage??
5)
Also, for protection, I have protection from elements spell, protects all dmg from one element up to 12 dmg per caster level, so thats 12x12 dmg.. and it can all be absorbed in one round.. Considering this spell with the fire shield I don't think I have to worry at all about his breath weapon.
6)
Another cool thing would be to use deminsion door to get real far away, then blast blast blast....
7)
Another thought that just occured to me, If I cast ghost form spell, and I am inside the cavern wall, can I cast spectral hand and a touch spell (chill touch to be specific, you can use it many many many times, and I think it drains dex, which would ROCK)
COULD I use the spectral hand to deliver the touch attacks while i'm in the wall. A part of ghostforms effect is thqat you can't use any touch or ranged touch attacks, but if i'm using the spectral hand spell to deliever those touch attacks, it should work. Any thoughts on this one? could be very useful...
8)
Antoher idea, I have the fiend form spell, which lets me take the form of any fiendish creatue, devil, or deamon that can be summoned by the summoning spells I-VI. Using this spell, could I then take the form of a deamon with fire immmunity???? You gain all the abilities of the creature you become, but it says nothing about losing my spells, so would I in fact lose my spells? this could be particuarly useful as well.
9)
So does displacement work on the dragon?? Cuz I have that spell, and it could be very useful...
Looking thorugh all my best tactics. thats what I came up with please comment on ALL of it and lemme know what you think is useful, whats impossible, whats a crummy idea, etc.. thanks tons
1)
First of all, I have Ghost Form spell, this allows me to basically be an incorporeal form. I can freely move through solid objects, with this in mind, do you think it be possible for me (I have haste on, and fly spell which gives me speed 90 ft) to be in a wall, come out cast 2 spells for my action and extra partial action, than move back into the wall? Cuz If i am correct, you can cast 1 spell in a round and move as well, meaning with haste u could do the same and also 1 extra partial action, meaning 1 more spell.
Basically I'd come out cast a one spell and go back in the wall, the ghost form lasts like 1 minute per level, 12 minutes.. long time
2)
Another thought.. I have(edit) the Otilukes freezing orb spell.. It does 1d6/ caster lvl, so 12d6. no save, only SR. I also have 2 impromptu sneak attacks, and I can cast 2 of these spells. With my house rules in mind, i'd do 12d6 dmg with both spells, then 7d6 twice for sneak attack. so basically 12d6+12d6+7d6+7d6
that equals 38d6 dmg average of 114 dmg and all cold damage is doubled, so I could do 228 damage on average in one round if I am hasted, not too mention I can still do a quickened spell as a free action.
So, now I'm in wall, come out do freezing sphere, 114 dmg, do a quickened Ice knife, or something else... then move back in wall, same thing next round...
3)
Antoher thought, the 4th level spell shield... you can cast it to protect against fire or ice, and if u pick to protect vrs fire, it does 1d6+ 1 per caster level of ice dmg when something melee's you. It also halves all fire dmg, and if u make ur reflex save, u take no dmg. Basically everytime the guy attacked me, (he gets like 10 attacks a round, lol he takes 2d6+24 and thats every attack. I also have stoneskin on, so i'll take 10 dmg less per round, not that it will matter.
4)
Question on the above spell (fire shield) My character has improved evasion, meaning he takes half dmg on a failed reflex save, and NO dmg on a saved reflex save, so with improved evasion and fire shield combined, would I never take the damage??
5)
Also, for protection, I have protection from elements spell, protects all dmg from one element up to 12 dmg per caster level, so thats 12x12 dmg.. and it can all be absorbed in one round.. Considering this spell with the fire shield I don't think I have to worry at all about his breath weapon.
6)
Another cool thing would be to use deminsion door to get real far away, then blast blast blast....
7)
Another thought that just occured to me, If I cast ghost form spell, and I am inside the cavern wall, can I cast spectral hand and a touch spell (chill touch to be specific, you can use it many many many times, and I think it drains dex, which would ROCK)
COULD I use the spectral hand to deliver the touch attacks while i'm in the wall. A part of ghostforms effect is thqat you can't use any touch or ranged touch attacks, but if i'm using the spectral hand spell to deliever those touch attacks, it should work. Any thoughts on this one? could be very useful...
8)
Antoher idea, I have the fiend form spell, which lets me take the form of any fiendish creatue, devil, or deamon that can be summoned by the summoning spells I-VI. Using this spell, could I then take the form of a deamon with fire immmunity???? You gain all the abilities of the creature you become, but it says nothing about losing my spells, so would I in fact lose my spells? this could be particuarly useful as well.
9)
So does displacement work on the dragon?? Cuz I have that spell, and it could be very useful...
Looking thorugh all my best tactics. thats what I came up with please comment on ALL of it and lemme know what you think is useful, whats impossible, whats a crummy idea, etc.. thanks tons
Last edited:
Similar Threads
