Better Synergies?

[RandomPrecision]

Anyone else think that synergies aren't very useful? They're something to look forward to when you level-up for the first time, but after that, +2 to a specific skill isn't actually that noticeable (maybe in some circumstances where the DC of a situation is equal to skill ranks + appropriate ability modifier + 22, but that doesn't happen very often). So, after looking at the pages several times to make sure this wasn't already intended by the rules, I came to the rather simple idea that instead of a synergy bonus of +2 being given for 5 ranks in a skill, a cumulative +2 bonus could be given for each 5 ranks in a skill. I haven't playtested this, so maybe (since this obviously gives better synergy bonuses), the progression should only be +1 for every 5 ranks.

Has anyone else tried different synergy systems like this? If so, did it work?

 

[Jdvn1]

I think they mention something like that in the Complete Adventurer. Seems neat.

 

[RandomPrecision]

I couldn't find something like that in CAdv, but there might be something I missed. It does have rules for using synergetic skills in combined attempts though (like using Handle Animal to help someone else's Ride).

 

[Jdvn1]

Yeah, you're right. I must've been extrapolating the rule myself based on some ideas from that section. Or something. Like the Aid Another section there.

Anyway, yeah, I like that houserule but maybe I'd make it scale a little slower so it's not too good.

 

[ARandomGod]

Anyone else think that synergies aren't very useful? They're something to look forward to when you level-up for the first time, but after that, +2 to a specific skill isn't actually that noticeable (maybe in some circumstances where the DC of a situation is equal to skill ranks + appropriate ability modifier + 22, but that doesn't happen very often). So, after looking at the pages several times to make sure this wasn't already intended by the rules, I came to the rather simple idea that instead of a synergy bonus of +2 being given for 5 ranks in a skill, a cumulative +2 bonus could be given for each 5 ranks in a skill. I haven't playtested this, so maybe (since this obviously gives better synergy bonuses), the progression should only be +1 for every 5 ranks.

Has anyone else tried different synergy systems like this? If so, did it work?

I haven't tried it, but I've talked it over some within my group...
I think that +2 per five would indeed be too much. But +1 per additional five seems not overpowered, and still gives some justifications. I mean, it does make sense that if being good at jumping makes you better at tumbling, then if you're BETTER at jumping, you should be better at tumbling.

I think you should keep the initial +2, however, and move to +1 for subsequent +5's.

 

[Impeesa]

The ELH has an optional rule for scaling the synergy bonus, but it doesn't really kick in until epic levels (makes sense, right?). It gives an additional +2 for every 20 ranks beyond the initial 5 (+4 at 25 ranks, +6 at 45 ranks, etc).

If you're looking to increase the value of synergy bonuses, you could make that every 10 ranks instead of every 20. You'd end up with something equivalent to +1 +1/5 ranks, which is similar to other suggestions here but keeps it valuable at very low levels.

--Impeesa--

 

[Jdvn1]

The ELH has an optional rule for scaling the synergy bonus, but it doesn't really kick in until epic levels (makes sense, right?). It gives an additional +2 for every 20 ranks beyond the initial 5 (+4 at 25 ranks, +6 at 45 ranks, etc).

I thought I saw it somewhere! Seems too slow, though.

If you're looking to increase the value of synergy bonuses, you could make that every 10 ranks instead of every 20. You'd end up with something equivalent to +1 +1/5 ranks, which is similar to other suggestions here but keeps it valuable at very low levels.

Yeah, that's how I'd do it.

 

[RandomPrecision]

Thanks for the feedback, everyone.

I mean, it does make sense that if being good at jumping makes you better at tumbling, then if you're BETTER at jumping, you should be better at tumbling.

That's what I was thinking. My analogy that I didn't state earlier was this: someone with 5 ranks in knowledge (arcana) get as much of a bonus with spellcraft as someone with 200 (except, as pointed out, there are epic synergy bonuses that I had forgotten). But really, synergies only get better with epic proficiency in a skill? That seems a bit odd.

I'll have to try this sometime, I thought about trying to scrape up some people who would partake of campaign-made-up-off-the-top-of-my-head-goodness, so if I'm successful, that can be the interesting thing about the campaign that I'll have to report back with.

 

[ARandomGod]

I thought I saw it somewhere! Seems too slow, though.
Yeah, that's how I'd do it.

Plus an additional two per ten beyond... I'd just do a +1 for every five, and an additional +1 for the first five (so +2 at five as normal, and +1 for every additional five). It's simpler, and gives intermediate steps to look forward to.

 

[RandomPrecision]

I wasn't completely sure what Impessa's notation meant, but I thought characters could get the original +2 bonus for 5, +1 at 10, 15, and 20, then +2 at 25, +1 at 30, 35, 40...etc.

The original synergy bonuses remain in place, but there's another +1 at every intermediate 5. Or else, 15 and 35 might also give +2.

I'm actually not entirely against the full +2 for every 5 ranks, despite the rather fast progression of that system. +1 for 5 ranks as a general rule is a lot stronger than the +2 at the first 5, but giving the +2 bonus would really bring out the synergies in the skills. I doubt that it would be really horribly unbalancing - after all, you're spending 10 points to get +4 on another skill.

While I'm not in favor of it, maybe a more experimental method could be used. Something that came to mind is a more exponential synergy - the amount that you get as a synergy bonus increases with every synergy increment. Perhaps +2 from 5 ranks, +4 from 15 ranks, +6 from 25 ranks, and so on. As someone becomes more proficient at tumbling, the rate at which they can become better at jumping increases.