Black Spine, Red Blood: A Dark Sun 3.5 Campaign

[evileeyore]

I hadn't given thought to PrC being organization based. I am used to not really worrying about it.

My thoughts on a few them from the SRD3.5:

Arcane Archer. Possibly unchanged, however Athasian Elves are not known for Wizardry, so maybe not right for the setting? Elves still like range on Athas though...

Archmage. Unchanged. I see no problem with the Veiled Alliance having Archmanges. Nor with the 'Sith-like' Defilers going this route.

Assassin. I am sure that the Sorceror Kings would absolutely not have a corp of trained assassins. I am sure of this. Nor would there be mercenary groups of assassins for hire amongst the merchant clans. Never.

Blackguard. I can see this working on Athas. I would change the ex-Paladin, to ex-Templar however...

Dragon Disciple. Right out. Unless possibly a Sorceror King aspirant... (read so to be dead here)

Duelist. I can this as a Gladiatorial speciality. Also a Merchant Guardsman speciality, less armor=good on Athas.

Dwarven Defender. Not really appropos from what I remember... Maybe in an 'all' Dwarven settlement?

Hierophant. Very appropriate for Templars.

Horizon Walkers. Already noted by Paxus as an Elven 'thing'.

Loremaster. Maybe really old (read experienced) Preservers or Defilers? However the SRD does not list an 'arcane spellcaster' requirement, so possibly useful to Templars?

Shadowdancer. I so see this as a viable PrC. Large roving band of 'Gypsy'-like entertainers...

Thaumaturgist. I can see this working for Elemental Clerics, Templars, Druids, and Wizards...

The mixed caster classes: See now I see a different side to this coin. Defilers and Preservers need to hide themselves amongst the populous. They would often have other skills to mask their abilities, and other skills to use. To me the 'mixed caster' classes are a natural extension of this. Not that a large organization would be teaching these skills, but that the Maste-Apprentice relationship would hold here. If the Master is an Arcane Trickster (learned from his Master, and so on) then the skills would likely be passed on. Same for Eldritch Knight, Mystic Theurge, what have you.

An that note, it may be that some PrCs like this would require a Master be sought out and wooed. Not necesarily helpful in a limited campiagn such as this PbP, but it could be thought on.

Not trying to undercut the DMs say here, just offering food for thought.

As a side note. I have played Mystic Theurges and they aren't all that good power wise. Very weak compared to straight out single class casters.


My take on PrCs being organization based:

Some PrCs yes. Assassin, Shadowdancer, Arcane Archer... However these also mentioned within their 'flavor text' such organizations. Others such as Blackguard, Thaumaturgist, Dragon Disciple mention a more personal route or contact with outer planar beings. Some seem to me to be more extensions of style or skills, Duellist (although I can see a Duelist org), Arcane Trickster, Heirophant, Loremaster, etc.

I mean it isn't necessary for most base classes to be bound to an organization right? (Preserver/Defiler master-apprentice relationship noted as exception)

I just don't see (even in Greyhawk worlds) Loremaster schools. Or Blackguard clan meetings. Horizon Wlaker help seminars. Etc.

Though I can see a need for limiting PrCs, because damn there are alot of them.

Your thoughts?

--EvilE--

Editted to add: Wow sorry about the long post. Not trying to be pedantic or argumentative.

 

[Paxus Asclepius]

I hadn't given thought to PrC being organization based. I am used to not really worrying about it.

My thoughts on a few them from the SRD3.5:

Arcane Archer. Possibly unchanged, however Athasian Elves are not known for Wizardry, so maybe not right for the setting? Elves still like range on Athas though...

Archmage. Unchanged. I see no problem with the Veiled Alliance having Archmanges. Nor with the 'Sith-like' Defilers going this route.

Assassin. I am sure that the Sorceror Kings would absolutely not have a corp of trained assassins. I am sure of this. Nor would there be mercenary groups of assassins for hire amongst the merchant clans. Never.

Blackguard. I can see this working on Athas. I would change the ex-Paladin, to ex-Templar however...

Dragon Disciple. Right out. Unless possibly a Sorceror King aspirant... (read so to be dead here)

Duelist. I can this as a Gladiatorial speciality. Also a Merchant Guardsman speciality, less armor=good on Athas.

Dwarven Defender. Not really appropos from what I remember... Maybe in an 'all' Dwarven settlement?

Hierophant. Very appropriate for Templars.

Horizon Walkers. Already noted by Paxus as an Elven 'thing'.

Loremaster. Maybe really old (read experienced) Preservers or Defilers? However the SRD does not list an 'arcane spellcaster' requirement, so possibly useful to Templars?

Shadowdancer. I so see this as a viable PrC. Large roving band of 'Gypsy'-like entertainers...

Thaumaturgist. I can see this working for Elemental Clerics, Templars, Druids, and Wizards...

The mixed caster classes: See now I see a different side to this coin. Defilers and Preservers need to hide themselves amongst the populous. They would often have other skills to mask their abilities, and other skills to use. To me the 'mixed caster' classes are a natural extension of this. Not that a large organization would be teaching these skills, but that the Maste-Apprentice relationship would hold here. If the Master is an Arcane Trickster (learned from his Master, and so on) then the skills would likely be passed on. Same for Eldritch Knight, Mystic Theurge, what have you.

An that note, it may be that some PrCs like this would require a Master be sought out and wooed. Not necesarily helpful in a limited campiagn such as this PbP, but it could be thought on.

Not trying to undercut the DMs say here, just offering food for thought.

As a side note. I have played Mystic Theurges and they aren't all that good power wise. Very weak compared to straight out single class casters.


My take on PrCs being organization based:

Some PrCs yes. Assassin, Shadowdancer, Arcane Archer... However these also mentioned within their 'flavor text' such organizations. Others such as Blackguard, Thaumaturgist, Dragon Disciple mention a more personal route or contact with outer planar beings. Some seem to me to be more extensions of style or skills, Duellist (although I can see a Duelist org), Arcane Trickster, Heirophant, Loremaster, etc.

I mean it isn't necessary for most base classes to be bound to an organization right? (Preserver/Defiler master-apprentice relationship noted as exception)

I just don't see (even in Greyhawk worlds) Loremaster schools. Or Blackguard clan meetings. Horizon Wlaker help seminars. Etc.

Though I can see a need for limiting PrCs, because damn there are alot of them.

Your thoughts?

--EvilE--

Editted to add: Wow sorry about the long post. Not trying to be pedantic or argumentative.

Arcane Archer is one of those interdisciplinary things that doesn't seem to make sense on Athas. Wizards do wizarding, not shoot arrows at people. The Archmage exists, but is available only to those with advanced magical training, which doesn't come easily even in the Veiled Alliance, and is almost certainly inaccessible to the PCs at this stage. The Blackguard is a servant of demonic forces, which just flat-out don't exist. An ex-templar has no recourse but to find a new sorceror-king, and ex-priests and ex-druids have no recourse save atonement. Loremasters require a store of knowledge accessible only to the sorceror-kings and their allies (read: not you). Dragon Disciple is not the route for a sorceror-king; you need powerful psionic and magical abilities to begin this route. Shadowdancer is associated with the Demiplane of Shadow, which is inaccessible; no one deals with the Black in that fashion, because it's terribly unhealthy. The only extraplanar entities smart enough for a Thaumaturgist to deal with are from the Gray (undead) or the Black (entirely unaccessed by people in their right minds). The Duelist works better with rapiers; the Invisible Blade will work better except for elven longblade wielders, but I suppose if someone truly wants to be a duelist, they could be.

The mixed-caster classes are, to me, a specialized and highly trained approach. For the sort of backup training you're talking about, simple multiclassing suffices.

 

[Wynter Wolf]

I have a question about item costs.

A Great Sword costs 50 gp

In Dark Sun would a Masterwork Metal Great Sword cost.

50 gp + 300 gp x 100 = 35,000 cp

Or

(50 gp x 100) + 300 = 5,300 cp

 

[humble minion]

Similar to Wynter Wolf's question, the ds3e rules say that adamantine items are available, but what would the price be? Would an adamantine dagger cost:

(2gp + 3000gp) x 100 = 300,200cp (ouch!)

or

(2gp x 100) + 3000 = 3,200 (bargain!)

or something in the middle? Bear in mind that an adamantine item is automatically masterwork...

Also, can I buy an inix with MMII's warbeast template on it? According to the template, this would cost 625cp as opposed to 100cp for a regular inix. Note that the extra 1HD given by the template pushes the inix up a size category (large to huge) according to Terrors of Athas, though I suppose you could house-rule that the size increase doesn't happen in the case of the template if you wanted.

 

[evileeyore]

The mixed-caster classes are, to me, a specialized and highly trained approach. For the sort of backup training you're talking about, simple multiclassing suffices.

Okay, no problem. Straight Wizard it is.

Although I might look into a few levels of Rogue or Bard for 'extra' skill capability.

--EvilE--

 

[Paxus Asclepius]

In both cases, the higher cost is the correct one. Metal is astonishingly rare, and thus so is metalworking skill. An inix warbeast is fine, but it does not change in size (the size change is only for normal advancement, not template).

 

[humble minion]

A preliminary version of my character. Background and personality (plus a few other little equipment details and so on) are on hold until we work out how the group knows each other, what they do, etc, etc. Any mechanical concerns with this guy, Paxus?

Garak, Human Brute 1/Earth Cleric 11

Str 14 (6)
Dex 12 (4)
Con 14 (6)
Int 12 (4)
Wis 20 (13 + 3 level based increases)
Cha 11 (3)

Alignment: N
Init: +1
Move: 30ft (40ft natural)
AC: 18 (flatfooted 17, touch 11, -2 when raging)
Hit points = 1d12+2 + 11d8+22 (+24 when raging)

Full attack: +11/+6 melee heavy flail 1d10+3 (19-20/x2) or +12/+7 melee lance 1d8+2 (x3) or +10/+5 ranged shortbow 1d8+2
Full attack when raging: +13/+8 melee heavy flail 1d10+6 (19-20/x2) or +14/+9 melee lance 1d8+4 (x3)

Special abilities: Turn Undead, Control Vermin, Rage 1/day

Bab/Grapple: +9/+11 (+9/+13 when raging)

Saves: Fort +11 (+13 when raging), Reflex +4, Will +12

Feats - Power Attack, Improved Sunder, Extend Spell (if possible, I would like to use the 3 uses/day spontaneous metamagic option from Unearthed Arcana), Mounted Combat, Ride-by Attack, Spirited Charge, Talented (lesser object reading)

Skills (24 brute, 44 cleric)
Climb +10 (8 ranks) (no armour penalty due to Mountain's Fury domain power)
Concentration +10 (8 ranks)
Handle Animal +5 (5 ranks)
Heal +7 (2 ranks)
Intimidate +4 (4 ranks)
Knowledge(nature) +5 (4 ranks)
Knowledge(religion) +7 (6 ranks)
Listen +9 (4 ranks)
Profession(something to fit in with the group) +7 (2 ranks)
Ride +12 (9 ranks, 5 cross-class, +2 synergy)
Spellcraft +8 (7 ranks)
Survival +9 (4 ranks)

Spells per day: 6/7+1/5+1/5+1/4+1/3+1/1+1
Domains: Meek of the Earth, Mountain's Fury

Equipment:
+2 Fearsome breastplate - 16350 (the Fearsome enchantment is in Defenders of the Faith)
Incense of meditation (1 block) - 4900
Wand of Cure Moderate Wounds - 4500
Metal heavy flail - 1500
Warbeast inix - 625
3x +1 spell storing arrow - 501
Masterwork lance - 310
Mighty composite shortbow (+2) - 225
Everburning torch - 110
Inix howdah - 100
Scrying focus - 100 (presumably a finely polished piece of black marble or obsidian for an earth cleric)
2x alchemical antitoxin - 100
Climbers kit - 80
Potion fruit of cure light wounds - 50
Potion fruit of magic weapon - 50
50ft giant hair rope - 50
Healer's kit - 50
Net - 20
Small macahuitl - 20
Tent - 10
5x waterskin, flint & steel, shovel, spell component pouch, belt pouch, cookpot, blanket - 15
40 arrows - 2
332cp

 

[Jarval]

I think I'm going to go with Half-Giant Brute for my character. It'll make a change not to play a spellcaster

 

[Wynter Wolf]

I have chosen a Mul Gladiator 4/Rogue 2/Reaping Mauler 5
This should be real fun. I have my stats and other stuff done i still need to work up a history.

 

[Paxus Asclepius]

A preliminary version of my character. Background and personality (plus a few other little equipment details and so on) are on hold until we work out how the group knows each other, what they do, etc, etc. Any mechanical concerns with this guy, Paxus?

No mechanical questions, just one small RP question: how exactly does a brute end up as not merely an Earth cleric, but one with the Meek of the Earth domain (insects not being noted either for individual strength nor savagery)? I'm not saying it's implausible, just wondering what your explanation is.

For the metamagic, I'm fine with using that variant; the level limitation remains the same, so it avoids some of the uglier possibilities. For those who don't have the book, this variant means that, instead of metamagic spells taking up a higher level slot, you have three daily uses a day of that metamagic feat, which can be applied spontaneously, without extended casting time, to any spell whose level is X lower than your highest level, where X is the number of levels the metamagic would normally raise it by. The feat Eschew Components is not limited in uses per day.