Blast, Burst and Close

Negflar2099

Explorer
The one thing I can't figure out is the difference between Burst, Blast and Close attacks.

A Burst is like a fireball right so a Burst 3 would look like this ( O=Origin Square, X=Affected Sqaure) right?


XXXXXXX
XXXXXXX
XXXXXXX
XXXOXXX
XXXXXXX
XXXXXXX
XXXXXXX

And a Blast 3 would look like this (O=Origin Square, X=Affected square) right?

XXX
XXX
XXX
O

So would would Close look like and how is it different than a Burst? Any help you can provide would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
 

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Mort_Q

First Post
Negflar2099 said:
I looked through that page sent me to but I couldn't find it.

Page 60 if you go by the printed page number, Page 64 if you're just viewing in a pdf reader.

Negflar2099 said:
So what's a regular burst? Is there such a thing?

Ok, now that I've confused you...

Your first example is a Close Burst 3.

Your second example is a Blast 3.

The other kind of Burst is a ranged Burst... which centers, not on the caster, like a close burst, but on a square within a designated range.
 

ShinRyuuBR

First Post
This is why I've said it should be called "Ranged Burst" and "Close Burst" instead of "Area Burst" and "Close Burst", in this thread: http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=227160

It's just not intuitive.

Just to be clear, a burst can originate either at range or at yourself (Area Burst and Close Burst, respectively). A blast is alway close, and a wall is always area (ranged).
 

Stogoe

First Post
I don't think a Blast is always Close. The placing of the effect doesn't change, but 'Close' just means "no OA", and a Blast *could* provoke OAs, theoretically. It would seem silly, but it's possible.

*note that this is my opinion and may not actually be correct.
 

Logan_Bonner

First Post
The Pre-release Rules Compilation uses the wrong terminology. It will say "close blast," not just "blast," and "area burst" instead of "ranged burst."

The categories are:
Melee—single target, doesn't provoke, attack a nearby creature.
Close—multi-target, doesn't provoke, attack nearby creatures, origin square is your square.
Ranged—single target, provokes, attack a distant creature.
Area—multi-target, provokes, attack distant creatures, origin square is far away.
 

Mort_Q

First Post
WotC_Logan said:
The Pre-release Rules Compilation uses the wrong terminology. It will say "close blast," not just "blast," and "area burst" instead of "ranged burst."

The categories are:
Melee—single target, doesn't provoke, attack a nearby creature.
Close—multi-target, doesn't provoke, attack nearby creatures, origin square is your square.
Ranged—single target, provokes, attack a distant creature.
Area—multi-target, provokes, attack distant creatures, origin square is far away.

You're the best! Thanks.
 

Wisdom Penalty

First Post
WotC_Logan said:
The Pre-release Rules Compilation uses the wrong terminology. It will say "close blast," not just "blast," and "area burst" instead of "ranged burst."

The categories are:
Melee—single target, doesn't provoke, attack a nearby creature.
Close—multi-target, doesn't provoke, attack nearby creatures, origin square is your square.
Ranged—single target, provokes, attack a distant creature.
Area—multi-target, provokes, attack distant creatures, origin square is far away.

Logan - So a Close Blast 5, in effect, forms a block of squares that are adjacent to (but not including) the caster's square? Whereas a Close Burst 5 forms a bigger block with the caster's square as the center origin?
 

Reaper Steve

Explorer
Wisdom Penalty said:
Logan - So a Close Blast 5, in effect, forms a block of squares that are adjacent to (but not including) the caster's square? Whereas a Close Burst 5 forms a bigger block with the caster's square as the center origin?

No, I'm not Logan, but as I understand it a close burst 5 is bigger than a blast 5. A close burst 5 affects all squares within 5 of the caster's square, making it effectively 11 squares a side.
A blast 5 is 5 by 5 square.

Confusing? Well, I think any way you try to explain and differentiate them will have some inherent confusion.

Someone else provided the best mnemonic... 'burst' has an 'r' in the word, so the number given is a 'R'adius.
 


Wisdom Penalty said:
Can a caster position a blast anywhere, so long as he is adjacent to some portion of the blast area?

As I understand it, yes. A blast 4, for instance, is any 4-by-4 square in any position and at any angle, so long as you're adjacent to it in some way, shape, or form.
 

hbarsquared

Quantum Chronomancer
Neither from WotC, nor a playtester of any kind, but...

As far as I can tell, there is no such thing as an "Area blast," as well.

You can have a Close Burst centered on the caster, or an Area Burst centered on an origin square at a distance.

You can have a Close Blast adjacent to a caster, but that is part of the definition adjacent to the caster) and there is no such thing as a Blast at a distance.

Meaning, (and I think this helps clarify how effects work) all area-effects at a distance will always use the "Burst" keyword. You only need to worry about "Blast" for effects that are adjacent to the character.
 

TwinBahamut

First Post
jeremy_dnd said:
Meaning, (and I think this helps clarify how effects work) all area-effects at a distance will always use the "Burst" keyword. You only need to worry about "Blast" for effects that are adjacent to the character.
I am not sure "will always" is appropriate. If, for some reason, there was an Area attack of a different shape than a burst, it would still work. Something like the 3E Meteor Swarm, for example, or any other kind of attack with a special attack shape (cross pattern? the whole current battlefield?) may not be a Burst, but it would be an Area.

I think the very reason they decided to use the terms Close and Area, rather than just use the terms Burst and Blast as the important keywords (such as in the Swarm vulnerability) is because they wanted to leave room open to be flexible with the shape of area of effect attacks in the future.
 

Mort_Q

First Post
Burst and Blast are just shapes, right?

Area and Close are the categories that allow the classes/powers to be balanced between ranged and melee, area or single, etc.

Keywords good!
 

Verys Arkon

First Post
WotC_Logan said:
The Pre-release Rules Compilation uses the wrong terminology. It will say "close blast," not just "blast," and "area burst" instead of "ranged burst."

The categories are:
Melee—single target, doesn't provoke, attack a nearby creature.
Close—multi-target, doesn't provoke, attack nearby creatures, origin square is your square.
Ranged—single target, provokes, attack a distant creature.
Area—multi-target, provokes, attack distant creatures, origin square is far away.

Thanks Logan, I'll make the changes for the next (last?) update.
Verys.
 

Mort_Q

First Post
WotC_Logan said:
The Pre-release Rules Compilation uses the wrong terminology. It will say "close blast," not just "blast," and "area burst" instead of "ranged burst."

The categories are:
Melee—single target, doesn't provoke, attack a nearby creature.
Close—multi-target, doesn't provoke, attack nearby creatures, origin square is your square.
Ranged—single target, provokes, attack a distant creature.
Area—multi-target, provokes, attack distant creatures, origin square is far away.

What about personal? Are there other target categories?
 

Mort_Q said:
What about personal? Are there other target categories?
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DwarfFighter2.jpg
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Look at the Utility power.
 

Mort_Q

First Post
small pumpkin man said:
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DwarfFighter2.jpg
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Look at the Utility power.

Thanks. That power is, however, why I asked.

I'd guess that personal doesn't provoke, 'cause otherwise that power would be a lot less useful, but Logan didn't include it in his post (not that the context of the original discussion warranted it) so I asked.

Too bad they didn't use the :close: , :area: , :ranged: , or :melee: symbols... I would assume they'd use the :close: for personal.

Have we seen other personal target powers that have symbols in an excerpt?
 

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