D&D 5E Blindsight Discussion: What Crawford tweeted

[Celtavian]

I don't mind admitting when I'm wrong. Crawford did not offer a great deal of clarification because Twitter isn't the best way to disseminate rules clarification due to the maximum character length. Crawford did tweet that you can use Stealth (Hide) behind cover within Blindsight range.

What I'm gathering from Crawford's answer for Blindsight is the following:

1. Concealment does not work against Blindsight. You can't hide in fog, darkness, or the like against Blindsight.

2. Invisibility doesn't work against Blindsight.

3. Blindness does not affect Blindsight.

4. Cover works. I'm assuming the idea is something solid interposed between you and the creature will prevent its senses from automatically discerning you.

I would love to see a little more clarification for Blindsight. I've come to accept this edition isn't concerned with being a realistic simulation. It is more concerned with simple rules that allow for the creation of an interesting narrative, while not leaving monsters completely without means to defeat powerful buffs like invisibility and similar magics.

 

[BigVanVader]

Plus, it allows for Daredevil and Zatoichi. I'm always in favor of that.

 

[GSHamster]

Perhaps it's best to think of Blindsight as a type of sonar, kind of like the ability the superhero Daredevil has.

(In fact, I'd wager he's the model WotC had in mind when they came up with the ability.)

The pulse would reveal anyone hidden in fog or invisible. However, the pulse would bounce off solid objects and not reveal what is behind the object.

 

[BigVanVader]

Perhaps it's best to think of Blindsight as a type of sonar, kind of like the ability the superhero Daredevil has.

(In fact, I'd wager he's the model WotC had in mind when they came up with the ability.)

The pulse would reveal anyone hidden in fog or invisible. However, the pulse would bounce off solid objects and not reveal what is behind the object.

Jinx!

 

[Hriston]

Hey! I don't want to open up an argument that's already been played out on another thread , but I don't see any of this as un-realistic. All it says is that since blindsight is not vision, then obscurement has no effect on its ability to notice creatures attempting to hide. This does not confer an additional ability to notice creatures that are attempting to hide behind solid objects, because a physical barrier impedes other senses besides sight.

For anyone who hasn't read them, here are the tweets:

Q: Does Blindsight allow you to automatically see creatures using obscurement to hide in order to cause them to lose hidden?
A: An undistracted creature with blindsight does typically notice creatures who aren't behind cover.

Q: Does Stealth or Invisibility work within Blindsight range?
A: "Does Stealth or Invisibility work within Blindsight range?" A creature can try to hide within blindsight range behind cover.

Btw, I asked Crawford to clarify the Surprise rules, but he has yet to reply.

 

[Kaychsea]

So, oddly like it's written in this edition rather than previous editions? Cool.

 

[Mephistopheles]

I would love to see a little more clarification for Blindsight. I've come to accept this edition isn't concerned with being a realistic simulation. It is more concerned with simple rules that allow for the creation of an interesting narrative, while not leaving monsters completely without means to defeat powerful buffs like invisibility and similar magics.

I guess this a legacy of 3E: an expectation that the rules will provide an exacting mechanical coherency that is akin to the physical laws of the game world, the workings of which can be deduced from a thorough reading of the rules rather than lending itself to interpretation.

At first I remember really liking that about 3E. I still do, but over time I came to see it as something of a burden as well.

 

[Henrix]

I would love to see a little more clarification for Blindsight. I've come to accept this edition isn't concerned with being a realistic simulation.

You are assuming that blindsight is a single thing.

A shark, a bat, and a grell use different senses as their blindsight.

Smell, echolocation and sensitivity to electrical fields have different subtle advantages and drawbacks - blocking one does not necessarily block the others. They would all need their own separate rules, leading to immense rules bloat - or good judgement.

I find that much more realistic.

 

[Dausuul]

Blindsight is not a tightly defined ability. It means different things to different monsters. For a giant bat, it's active sonar. But dragons also have blindsight, and I don't think the designers meant to suggest that dragons make ultrasonic squeaks and listen to the echoes! Dragon blindsight is a combination of multiple keen senses (smell, hearing, taste, even touch) and perhaps a supernatural awareness of their surroundings.

Still, the one thing that's very clear about blindsight is that it's non-visual. So obviously nothing that relies on visual concealment alone is going to affect it. Darkness, invisibility, obscurement caused by shadows, and visual-only illusions won't do anything. There's room for debate over fog--some studies suggest that bats avoid dense fog, which might imply that it can interfere with echolocation. However, for the sake of simplicity, I'd rule out fog as well.

On the other hand, it's boring if blindsight becomes total awareness. The obvious interpretation of Crawford's ruling, which also strikes me as the most sensible way to handle it, is that solid obstacles do block blindsight. It doesn't let you see around corners, and a rogue who stays behind solid cover can hide from a dragon.

 

[Minigiant]

You are assuming that blindsight is a single thing.

A shark, a bat, and a grell use different senses as their blindsight.

Smell, echolocation and sensitivity to electrical fields have different subtle advantages and drawbacks - blocking one does not necessarily block the others. They would all need their own separate rules, leading to immense rules bloat - or good judgement.

I find that much more realistic.

Exactly.

"Normal "Cover in D&D is visual

To hide within a bat's blindsight, you need auditory cover.
To hide within a grimlock's blindsight, you need auditory cover and olfactory cover.

To hide from a dragon or a high level ranger, you need auditory cover, olfactory cover, and visual cover.