D&D 5E Blindsight Discussion: What Crawford tweeted

[Paraxis]

To hide from blindsight no matter who or what possesses it you just need cover and to make a stealth skill check. That was the point of the tweet that the OP pointed out. You don't need auditory or olfactory cover because such things don't exist as a game concept.

Rogue hides behind stone pillar, super smelling and hearing hunting dog sent from hell with blindsight must make a perception check to find him hiding behind that cover.

 

[Minigiant]

To hide from blindsight no matter who or what possesses it you just need cover and to make a stealth skill check. That was the point of the tweet that the OP pointed out. You don't need auditory or olfactory cover because such things don't exist as a game concept.

Rogue hides behind stone pillar, super smelling and hearing hunting dog sent from hell with blindsight must make a perception check to find him hiding behind that cover.

No.
The tweet says the a creature can use cover to hide from another creature who has blindsight.

No where does it state what counts as cover from blindsight.

A giant cannot use a human sized cauldron for visual cover but can use its bubblng and aroma as cover if the ranger was blinded.

Ultimately it is up to the DM was counts as cover from blindsight.

 

[Plaguescarred]

"Normal "Cover in D&D is visual

I don't think cover has any sense associated necessarily, its just a physical barrier. In invisible wall would still provide total cover even if you can see through for exemple. Visual, audotiry and olfactory are just additional properties based on the sense that could mask, but first and foremost, in order for any obstacle to be visual, audotiry or olfactory cover, it will need to be a cover in the first place and thus provide a bonus to AC and DEX saves.

Masking your odour from grimlocks by standing in some foul-smelling area would not be providing any cover whatsoever as it doesn't protect you in any way. But it would provide an alternate from of obscurement IMO, one olfactory rather than visual.

 

[Paraxis]

No.
The tweet says the a creature can use cover to hide from another creature who has blindsight.

No where does it state what counts as cover from blindsight.

A giant cannot use a human sized cauldron for visual cover but can use its bubblng and aroma as cover if the ranger was blinded.

Ultimately it is up to the DM was counts as cover from blindsight.

Except cover is not just a word, it is an explicit game term.

Cover has it's own meaning in D&D, you can read exactly what it is on page 196 of the PHB.

You might notice that there is not mention of other senses besides sight. When discussing rules it is best to talk about published rules, instead of saying things like "ultimately it is up to the DM" because YES we get it rule 0 and all the other DM Fiat stuff but it hardly adds to a conversation about rules.

 

[Thyrwyn]

You might also mention, as I did in the other thread, that blindsight is a subsection of Vision and Light, which deals specifically with obscurement. Blindisight is never mentioned or referenced under the section on Cover.

 

[Joe Liker]

So, oddly like it's written in this edition rather than previous editions? Cool.

Why do people keep saying it was different in previous editions? This is exactly how it worked in both 3.5 and 4e -- both editions explicitly required line of effect in order to perceive anything via blindsight.

In editions earlier than that, I don't believe "blindsight" was an officially defined game term.

 

[Joe Liker]

Exactly.

"Normal "Cover in D&D is visual

To hide within a bat's blindsight, you need auditory cover.
To hide within a grimlock's blindsight, you need auditory cover and olfactory cover.

To hide from a dragon or a high level ranger, you need auditory cover, olfactory cover, and visual cover.

Thank you for sharing your house rules. I won't be using them.

 

[Thyrwyn]

I could see giving obscurement in those conditions....

 

[Minigiant]

I don't think cover has any sense associated necessarily, its just a physical barrier. In invisible wall would still provide total cover even if you can see through for exemple. Visual, audotiry and olfactory are just additional properties based on the sense that could mask, but first and foremost, in order for any obstacle to be visual, audotiry or olfactory cover, it will need to be a cover in the first place and thus provide a bonus to AC and DEX saves.

Masking your odour from grimlocks by standing in some foul-smelling area would not be providing any cover whatsoever as it doesn't protect you in any way. But it would provide an alternate from of obscurement IMO, one olfactory rather than visual.

Except cover is not just a word, it is an explicit game term.

Cover has it's own meaning in D&D, you can read exactly what it is on page 196 of the PHB.

You might notice that there is not mention of other senses besides sight. When discussing rules it is best to talk about published rules, instead of saying things like "ultimately it is up to the DM" because YES we get it rule 0 and all the other DM Fiat stuff but it hardly adds to a conversation about rules.

Thank you for sharing your house rules. I won't be using them.

I think I stated it incorrectly.

You can hide from blindsight when in cover.
However, you can only hide from an enemy who cannot perceive you.

The rules only states when you can not be perceived visually except in a few instances.

Therefore while a character can use cover to hide but it is up to the DM to decide if the character is still perceived by its blindsense.

It's like hiding behind a clear glass wall from a NPC who isn't blind.

You don't hide by finding cover. You hide by no longer being perceived.

 

[Hriston]

I think I stated it incorrectly.

You can hide from blindsight when in cover.
However, you can only hide from an enemy who cannot perceive you.

The rules only states when you can not be perceived visually except in a few instances.

Therefore while a character can use cover to hide but it is up to the DM to decide if the character is still perceived by its blindsense.

It's like hiding behind a clear glass wall from a NPC who isn't blind.

You don't hide by finding cover. You hide by no longer being perceived.

This is pretty unambiguous: "A creature can try to hide within blindsight range behind cover." Whether or not you are perceived is taken care of by the stealth check. A creature behind cover does not count as part of the blindsighted creature's surroundings and therefore is not automatically noticed. The creature attempting to hide must still make a successful stealth check as normal. If stealth is successful you can assume that the creature that is attempting to hide is not given away by making a noise, an odor, a vibration, or whatever would alert the blindsense.