Bloodclaw replacement?

[Obryn]

Thankfully, now it depends on what you want out of your character, rather than just an automatic bloodclaw. What are you built for? There are some remarkably good weapon abilities which fill specific purposes.

-O

 

[eamon]

It's too common on these boards to see people get annoyed at someone wanting to hit hard. It's hardly the fault of any specific player that the original bloodclaw wasn't well balanced; and the errata was sufficiently severe as to ensure that it no longer serves the same purpose. It's not like people were bending the rules trying to break the game; they used the weapon the way it was meant to be used - and that happened to be a little too powerful. Not game-breakingly so, but enough to make it a the obvious choice.

If you don't have a set of iron armbands, then a radiant weapon may be the kind of thing the OP is looking for. 'course, I expect he has those - they're the obvious choice of arm slot. And that too is hardly his fault.

 

[keterys]

It probably would have helped to find out some more thematic elements from the character... but someone else apparently had a similar idea and made this thread:

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I haven't read the thread, but excerpts from the first post that would seem helpful for you include:

Lv 2 Goblin Totem, Any, (FRCG) - Extra damage when you hit a creature larger than you. Amazingly good for Small-sized characters (Halfling Rogue/Whirling Barb anyone?) because almost every enemy is bigger than you. May even be a good option for Medium-Sized characters in late Paragon/Epic (when most enemies get bigger). Cheap, available early, does consistent damage when the conditions are met. Slight Rogue bias because the Rogue class penalizes Small characters less with the weapon die, but I think any Striker can make use of this. Probably the new weapon of choice for Small characters, especially.

Lv 3 Frost Weapon, Any, (PHB) - The Frost cheese combo is unchanged. Exploiting cold vulnerability to do consistent extra damage is still just as good, but it does come with a feat cost. I suspect a lot of Rangers will gravitate towards this.

Lv 3 Quick Weapon, Any, (AV) - Gives you a free MBA when you hit once a day. Free attacks are always welcome for nova. Cheap and available early.

Lv 14 Battlemaster's Weapon, Any, (AV) - Hitting again with your best encounter attack power is never bad. Actually, you can recover ANY encounter power with this daily, possibly even item powers. I'm sure there's a creative use for this.

Lv 13 Withering Weapon, Any Melee, (AV) - Every time you hit, the enemy gets a cumulative -1 AC penalty (until they save). It can add up to a sizable party attack bonus, especially if you have multiple characters in the party that primarily target AC (Martial characters, Defenders, etc.). Especially good for multiattackers like Barbarians, Tempest Fighters, and Rangers, because you can ramp up the penalty quickly.

Lv 3 Vanguard Weapon, Any Melee, (AV) - Bonus damage when you charge. Thaneborns can grant an awesome leader buff; the daily grants a power bonus to attack and Cha damage to all your allies.

Lv 4 Avalanche Hammer, Hammer, (AV2) - Nice crit die, and prone on a crit. Adds damage when you make a MBA charge.

Lv 13 Thundergod Weapon, Any Melee, (AV) - Bonus damage when you charge. It's a little more bonus damage than Vanguard, but lacks the daily power. Thaneborns might stick with Vanguard, but Rageblood will want to upgrade.

 

[Prestidigitalis]

It was not "nerfed", it was "fixed". Now its just good, not broken. Especially considering it's an enhancement +1 enchantment.

Nah, I think nerfed is the right word. Once per encounter, against a single opponent, you can increase the damage you do by 3 per + (assuming a two hander), at the expense of 1 per + damage to yourself.

Compare that to a Battlecrazed Weapon, which increases your weapon damage by 1d6 when you are bloodied. No other restrictions except for "Axe or Heavy Blade". So:

"When bloodied" beats "1 per encounter" since only in the least threatening encounters will you not be bloodied at least once. While you are bloodied, you can use an action point, granted attacks, OAs, Immediate Actions, close attacks, area attacks using a weapon as an implement, etc., to get many more than one shot at the extra damage.

Also, 1d6 is better than a static + because it maximizes on a critical hit.

Oh, and Battlecrazed even has a Daily power attached, though not a very good one, IMO.

So, I'd rather have a nerfed Bloodclaw than a vanilla +1 weapon, but I would no longer get excited about it.

 

[Corwin]

Nah, I think nerfed is the right word.

You'll need to define your use of the word "nerf" then. Because , IMX, it's generally used to describe when something was "ruined" by errata or a houserule so as to bring it down from a good, or even OP, choice to an undesirably one. And that's not the case here. Not by a long shot.

Once per encounter, against a single opponent, you can increase the damage you do by 3 per + (assuming a two hander), at the expense of 1 per + damage to yourself.

Yep. Sounds on par with the various other level+1 enchantments on the books. Care to present an argument against that?

Compare that to a Battlecrazed Weapon [snipped all the unimportant stuff]
Why should we? Battlecrazed is 2 levels higher on the food chain. Let's instead compare it to Flesh Seeker. Or Goblin Totem. Or Aftershock. Now they now seem pretty comparable to me. Apples vs. Oranges gets us nowhere.

So, I'd rather have a nerfed Bloodclaw than a vanilla +1 weapon, but I would no longer get excited about it.

Duh. And you'd also rather have a level 4 Battlecrazed weapon than a Level 2 Bloodclaw one now. Another no brainer. As opposed to pre-errata, where you'd still want the lever level Bloodclaw over the more expensive Battlecrazed. Or any other equal enhancement bonus weapon for that matter. Because Bloodclaw was always the obvious choice. Get it yet?

 

[keterys]

Fwiw, folks I know tend to use 'nerfed' to refer to any notable decrease in power. Even a deserved one.

Though I do realize its origin was in reduced in power so drastically that it seems as if you're not wielding foam weapons, I think that it's now far more general.

Bloodclaw does seem on par with many other weapons of its level, at this point, with some exception (Jagged, for instance).

Reckless, otoh, is now worse than Bloodclaw, which is a level lower. That one I would contend they 'overnerfed'. Whereas Bloodclaw was nerfed appropriately.

Urban dictionary would appear to confirm that definition: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nerf

 

[Corwin]

Reckless, otoh, is now worse than Bloodclaw, which is a level lower. That one I would contend they 'overnerfed'. Whereas Bloodclaw was nerfed appropriately.

I agree here that Reckless was indeed nerfed (even by my standards of the word ). Though that wasn't part of the earlier conversation.

Regardless, Bloodclaw is still decent. And again, this is coming from a player who's character uses one. Decent bonus damage upon a confirmed hit once per fight is nothing to sneeze at.

In fact, I now feel less dirty for having one.

 

[Obryn]

Jagged is definitely a winner, especially in the low Paragon range. It was already popular for Avengers, and now it will be even moreso! About the only thing holding it back, maybe, is that ongoing isn't always as exciting as dealing extra damage dice right then & there.

-O

 

[Prestidigitalis]

Duh. And you'd also rather have a level 4 Battlecrazed weapon than a Level 2 Bloodclaw one now. Another no brainer. As opposed to pre-errata, where you'd still want the lever level Bloodclaw over the more expensive Battlecrazed. Or any other equal enhancement bonus weapon for that matter. Because Bloodclaw was always the obvious choice. Get it yet?

1. I've found that the level requirements for items are very uneven. Daily powers are overrated, properties are underrated. Level 4 vs. Level 2 isn't enough difference to justify the power differential.

2. Frankly, I'd rather have had Battlecrazed than Bloodclaw even before the nerf. I like multiple-attack powers, and Bloodclaw either a) doesn't apply to more than one target in an attack, or b) applies but inflicts an additional cost for each additional target, depending upon your interpretation. Battlecrazed applies to all hits without any penalty at all. Also, pre-nerf Bloodclaw inflicted the self-damage even on a miss.

2a. Note: this analysis does become less meaningful at higher levels, because Battlecrazed does not scale up as Bloodclaw does. But that consideration doesn't count for much with me, as I've yet to get a character past level 8 for more than a single session.

3. "Duh" and "Get it yet?" are kind of rude, don't you think? I wasn't rude to you, I simply disagreed. Can we get back to friendly discussion, please?

 

[Turtlejay]

It's too common on these boards to see people get annoyed at someone wanting to hit hard. It's hardly the fault of any specific player that the original bloodclaw wasn't well balanced; and the errata was sufficiently severe as to ensure that it no longer serves the same purpose. It's not like people were bending the rules trying to break the game; they used the weapon the way it was meant to be used - and that happened to be a little too powerful. Not game-breakingly so, but enough to make it a the obvious choice.

If you don't have a set of iron armbands, then a radiant weapon may be the kind of thing the OP is looking for. 'course, I expect he has those - they're the obvious choice of arm slot. And that too is hardly his fault.

My initial read of the OP came off as powergamery. It seemed like with the obvious best toy around now unappealing, he was looking for the next most shiny thing.

A re-read gives me doubts, though. Craghammer is good, but if he was really an abuser he'd be using Mordenkrad or Executioner's axe or Fullblade. Dreadnaught is good, but more for it's staying power and less for (in my opinion) it's uberdamage potential.

I'd guess I was wrong there, but without him chiming in again I'll never know.

Jay