BoED and Britannia 3E

[hong]

This board could do with a "pimp" posticon, BTW.

So, as I mention in this thread, the Book of Exalted Deeds is the first WotC splatbook for some time that may actually see use in my game. I'm a bit "eh" on the waffly stuff about the meaning of good and evil, but the crunchy bits look nice, and I have a preference for heroic good-guy campaigns anyway.

The campaign is set in the Britannia of the Ultima 4/5 CRPGs, and there is a website all about it here. With the setting's emphasis on virtue and enlightenment and wearing the white hat and killing horrible monsters with great gusto, you can see why I reckon the BoED fits it quite well.

Background info on virtue in Britannia 3E:

• There are 8 virtues: Honesty, Compassion, Valor, Justice, Sacrifice, Honor, Spirituality, Humility.
• Doing a special quest (or a number of quests) and generally acting in a not-evil way means you can become enlightened in one or more virtues, making you a partial avatar. You get a small powerup as a result.
• Gaining partial avatarhood in all 8 virtues makes you a full Avatar, and you get another powerup.
• Acting in an evil way means you become a fallen Avatar.

Simple, isn't it? Partial avatarhood isn't meant to be super-hard to achieve, BTW, although getting all 8 virtues might take some doing.

Current thoughts on how to integrate the BoED crunchy bits into Britannia 3E:

• Only characters who have achieved partial avatarhood in at least one of the 8 virtues have access to any special power in the BoED (feat, spell, item enchantment, etc).
• Achieving full avatarhood gains you the saint template, which I'll just rename as the Avatar template, replacing what's already on my website.
• You can take one BoED feat for every virtue you achieve partial avatarhood in. This means you can only have a max of 8 BoED feats (exalted or otherwise), but like 640K memory, 8 feats should be enough for anybody.
• You gain access to one spell level of BoED spells for every virtue you achieve partial avatarhood in. Eg if you're a partial avatar in Honesty, you can add the 1st level spells in the BoED to your spell list. If you're a partial avatar in Honesty and Compassion, you can add the 1st and 2nd level spells to your spell list, and so on. Since there are only 8 virtues, this means you can gain access to up to 8th level spells. This suits me fine, since I ditched 9th level spells in my campaign (!).
• I can't see any reason why sorcs shouldn't be able to cast sanctified spells, so now they can. Conversely, I can't see why clerics should be able to cast sanctified spells spontaneously, so now they can't.
• I'll probably dump the Vow of X feats. They go too far in balancing mechanics with roleplaying restrictions, which ought to be a no-no.
• No fey IMC (or very few), so no Nymph's Kiss either. There are fey-like creatures who are a PC race; they're called spirit folk, and are from OA (which is another book by James Wyatt; coincidence or conspiracy?)
• Britannia's cosmology doesn't feature lots of outer planes or a pantheon of individual gods, so I'll probably dump all the background info on the celestial hebdomad, Talisid and the five companions, and the court of stars. I'll still use the associated prestige classes, I'll just think up different names for them and make them agents of various aspects of virtue. I should also mention at this point that "Talisid and the Five Companions" would make not too shabby a name for a rock band.

Any comments on this?

 

[Tratyn Runewind]

Hi Hong,

Sounds wicked cool. Somehow I wouldn't have guessed you'd be running an Ultima-based campaign.

Ultima IV is one of the best CRPG's I've ever played; it was really ground-breaking, and far superior in role-playing terms to many games that came out much later with way better graphical eye-candy. In fact, I hear now that they're finally implementing a version of the avatar and virtue system in the newest versions of Ultima Online, in part to help with the player-killing problem.

How are you handling Shepherds? PC Commoners? That'll certainly teach some Humility, probably right after the first fight...

I haven't been keeping up with the BoED discussions, so I can't really offer you any help there, unfortunately. Best I can do is give a pointer to my favorite Ultima website, Underworld Dragon's Notable Ultima. It's a cool site, but you seem pretty au fait with all the Ultima elements you need for your campaign world, so I don't know how much it might help. Still, hopefully you'll have fun with it.

Good luck with the campaign!

 

[hong]

Heh, I thought I'd mentioned it ad nauseam. The campaign's been going for about a year now, and the PCs have just reached 10th-11th level. I'm also pretending that everything after U5 doesn't exist. Except for the blackrock.

I like the anointed knight PrC, even if it seems too much of a clone of the warrior of darkness. But I am going to have to change the anointing thing, because there is no way I'll beable to avoid saying "you oil yourself up for battle..." before every fight.

 

[Halivar]

Hong, I know you're only doing Ultima 4/5, but I thought I'd throw in that 7 did, in fact, have nymphs. They liked to go around kissing the avatar if you talked to them enough. You always had "-Name -Job -Bye -Kiss" as conversation options. Put those fey in there, man!

 

[Psion]

Sounds cool to me. And considering my campaign world has its roots in Ultima 4/5 as well (albeit that in my case its more inspiration than emulation), I might be able to spin off some of these ideas.

In particular, I find the idea of gaining levels of avatarhood an interesting take and an interesting way to use what I consider to be a somewhat lackluster book.

 

[hong]

Hong's pimp thread/blog, cont'd

After some thought, I'll probably allow in the Vow of X feats after all. My gripe is more that the specific virtues listed aren't the same as those in Britannia, but heck, that's what changing the flavour text is all about. These feats also feature as prereqs for a lot of PrCs, so taking them out looks like it could cause quite a few headaches.

The exception is still Vow of Poverty. IMO that one pushes it too far in terms of breaking the "kill things/take stuff" paradigm that's at the heart of much of the D&D mindset. My campaign also already has a mechanic (imbued magic) to let people power up their stuff without having to loot treasure, so allowing Vow of Poverty as well would be overkill.


Renamed/modified feats:

Servant of the Heavens -> Seeker of Truth

You have gained partial enlightenment in the principle of Truth, one of the three principles underpinning the virtues of the Avatar.

Prerequisites: Must have achieved partial avatarhood in at least one of Honesty, Justice, Honor or Spirituality. Must have meditated at the Flame of Truth in the Lycaeum for 3 cycles (however long that is ).

Benefit: As per Servant of Heavens.


Knight of Stars -> Empathic Soul

You have gained partial enlightenment in the principle of Love, one of the three principles underpinning the virtues of the Avatar.

Prerequisites: Must have achieved partial avatarhood in at least one of Compassion, Justice, Sacrifice or Spirituality. Must have meditated at the Flame of Love in Empath Abbey for 3 cycles.

Benefit: As per Knight of Stars.


Favored of the Companions -> Favoured of the Silver Serpent

You have gained partial enlightenment in the principle of Courage, one of the three principles underpinning the virtues of the Avatar.

Prerequisites: Must have achieved partial avatarhood in at least one of Valor, Sacrifice, Honor or Spirituality. Must have meditated at the Flame of Courage in Serpent's Hold for 3 cycles.

Benefit: As per Favored of the Companions.


Sacred Vow -> Vow of the Avatar

You have dedicated yourself to achieving ultimate enlightenment -- the Quest of the Avatar.

Prerequisites: None (this is the only BoED feat that doesn't require you to be a partial avatar)

Benefit: As per Sacred Vow


Vow of Abstinence -> Exalted in Justice

You have achieved partial avatarhood in the virtue of Justice, granting you protection from those who seek to undermine the social order.

Prerequisites: Vow of the Avatar, partial avatarhood in Justice

Benefit: As per Vow of Abstinence

Special: If you act in a way that contravenes the virtue of Justice, you lose the benefit of this feat until such time as you regain your partial avatarhood.


Vow of Chastity -> Exalted in Honesty

You have achieved partial avatarhood in the virtue of Honesty, and your self-knowledge protects you from those who would deceive you.

Prerequisites: Vow of the Avatar, partial avatarhood in Honesty

Benefit: As per Vow of Chastity

Special: If you act in a way that contravenes the virtue of Honesty, you lose the benefit of this feat until such time as you regain your partial avatarhood.


Vow of Obedience -> Exalted in Honor

You have achieved partial avatarhood in the virtue of Honor, granting you insight into the true meaning of honor.

Prerequisites: Vow of the Avatar, partial avatarhood in Honor

Benefit: As per Vow of Obedience

Special: If you act in a way that contravenes the virtue of Honor, you lose the benefit of this feat until such time as you regain your partial avatarhood.



Substantially rewritten feats:

Vow of Nonviolence -> Exalted in Compassion

You have achieved partial avatarhood in the virtue of Compassion, and as such, you gain insight into mending the hurts of others.

Prerequisites: Vow of the Avatar, partial avatarhood in Compassion

Benefit: Any Conjuration (Healing) spell you cast is treated as if affected by the Empower Spell feat. However, you don't have to use a higher-level spell slot to cast the spell, as you would normally do. You can't use Empower Spell on a spell that is already affected by this feat.

Special: As per Vow of Nonviolence. PCs probably shouldn't take this feat, unless fights are rare in the campaign and/or you like arguing with the other players.



Vow of Peace -> Exalted in Spirituality

You have achieved partial avatarhood in the virtue of Spirituality, and your tranquility of mind is palpable.

Prerequisites: Vow of the Avatar, partial avatarhood in Spirituality

Benefit: You gain a +1 exalted bonus to AC, a +1 exalted bonus to all saving throws, and a +2 exalted bonus to Diplomacy checks. You are surrounded by a calm emotions aura (Will save negates, DC 10 + 1/2 level + Cha mod) to a radius of 20 feet. You can switch this aura on or off as a free action, but you can only do this once per round. For example, if you switch off the aura in one turn, you must wait until your next turn to switch it back on again.

Special: If you act in a way that contravenes the virtue of Spirituality, you lose the benefit of this feat until such time as you regain your partial avatarhood.



New feats:

Exalted in Valor

You have achieved partial avatarhood in the virtue of Valor, and are an inspiration on the battlefield.

Prerequisites: Vow of the Avatar, partial avatarhood in Valor

Benefit: You gain a +4 perfection bonus to Will saves to resist fear effects, and a +2 perfection bonus to your attack roll when you charge.

Special: If you retreat from a battle when your allies are still engaged, you lose the benefit of this feat. (Allies of yours who also have this feat don't count, so you can retreat before them.) DM's discretion applies as to when your allies are engaged.

 

[Psion]

Vow of Nonviolence -> Exalted in Compassion

You have achieved partial avatarhood in the virtue of Compassion, and as such, you gain insight into mending the hurts of others.

Prerequisites: Vow of the Avatar, partial avatarhood in Compassion

Benefit: Any Conjuration (Healing) spell you cast is treated as if affected by the Empower Spell feat. However, you don't have to use a higher-level spell slot to cast the spell, as you would normally do. You can't use Empower Spell on a spell that is already affected by this feat.

Special: As per Vow of Nonviolence. PCs probably shouldn't take this feat, unless fights are rare in the campaign and/or you like arguing with the other players.

Actually, I thought that Vow of Nonviolence was pretty playable as written. You will note that the vow only applies to certain creature types, which in an Ultima inspired game, doesn't sound like a great detriment (well, unless you are talking Ultima III where the road to riches was raiding cities over and over again... )

Which reminds me: do you have stats for "headlesses"?

Vow of Nonviolence is one of the feat Vow feats from the BoED I am considering using, sticking to the oath feats from Book of Hallowed Might for most purposes.

 

[hong]

Actually, I thought that Vow of Nonviolence was pretty playable as written. You will note that the vow only applies to certain creature types, which in an Ultima inspired game, doesn't sound like a great detriment

It's only humanoids and monstrous humanoids, but that's still quite a lot of foes. Orcs, for instance, and evil mages. Both of whom have been sighted frequently IMC.

(well, unless you are talking Ultima III where the road to riches was raiding cities over and over again... )

That was fun! Especially that town on an island surrounded by hills/mountains which was full of treasure chests. Go in, kill, loot, go out, go back in, repeat....

Which reminds me: do you have stats for "headlesses"?

I'm just using the grimlock stats. Blind thing with no eyes == blind thing with no head, or close enough. I gave them 2 claw attacks to match the usual pics, but other than that, it's the same.

Mind you, there's a big difference between a vanilla headless and a 6th level barbarian headless with the feral template.

Vow of Nonviolence is one of the feat Vow feats from the BoED I am considering using, sticking to the oath feats from Book of Hallowed Might for most purposes.

I really should pick that one up one of these days.

 

[Voadam]

This board could do with a "pimp" posticon, BTW.

I agree

but like 640K memory, 8 feats should be enough for anybody.

 

[Psion]

I'm just using the grimlock stats. Blind thing with no eyes == blind thing with no head, or close enough. I gave them 2 claw attacks to match the usual pics, but other than that, it's the same.

Hey, that sounds like a neat fit to me. And saves me the work. I like it.

Wasn't there a thread a while back about rubbing the serial numbers off of creatures and using the same creature with totally different appearences, like a gibbering mouther represented and a starry clound filled with pyrotechnics? That sounds like an entry there.

Edit: It was called "making monsters scary" and it appears to have slipped off into never never land, never having been archived. So nevermind...