Book of Vile Darkness

[Wolfspider]

Kenjib and others have missed the point.

Tolkien doesn't describe the corruption in graphic terms. He doesn't say 'to get orcs you sodomize elves and then scoop out their brains and replace them with the blood of a slain innocent.'

And you think that this is the kind of thing that Monte Cook is going to do in the BoVD?

Well, since I haven't actually read the book yet, I don't really know (but, knowing Mr. Cook's previous work, I find it highly unlikely).

I take it, however, that you haven't read the book either, so you're just blowing smoke here. There's no evidence that this is the kind of content we're going to find when we flip through the BoVD.

Considering how the other D&D books have been written, I doubt we'll find anything remotely similar to what you've described here. The subject matter will certainly be different, but the presentation should be similar. After all, the Psionics Handbook didn't teach its readers how to channel psychic energy with detailed instructions. The Monster Manual didn't graphically describe how the chimera tears its prey limb from limb. The section of Player's Handbook describing spells doesn't actually describe the hand gestures and incantations of spellcasting.

All of these books focus on effects. I warrant that the BoVD will do the same.

Or have I been missing out on the pages and pages of flavor text and fiction in the D&D3e books?

Nope, that's White Wolf. Sorry.

 

[NeghVar]

D&D is a high profile example of RPGs. It's market is larger than university kids and old D&D vets. Putting the D&D Logo on BoVD will damage the family oriented aspects of roleplaying and discourage parents from allowing their children, a vital source of new players, to participate. D&D is not mainstream enough to survive an attack by the media similar to the one aimed at computer games after Columbine. My belief that the release of this book is a marketing ploy is not a conspiracy theory, but the professional opinion of a Marketing person. History is full of examples of good things gone to pot over bad publicity. Kenzer & Company's book is a good example of the book your looking for without all of the needless graphic exposition. A good storyteller doesn't need such exposition in the first place to create a mood.

Here is my point...

Send the message to WotC by not buying it!

Later!

 

[Tiefling]

Ring wraiths are said by Tolkien to be corrupted by their greed and the effect of the one ring. Not 'they sacrificed 100 virgins after sodomizing them and biting off their nipples, because that's how it's done.'

How do you sodomize someone of the opposite sex?

 

[Hakkenshi]

Kenjib and others have missed the point.

Tolkien doesn't describe the corruption in graphic terms. He doesn't say 'to get orcs you sodomize elves and then scoop out their brains and replace them with the blood of a slain innocent.'

PrCs. Fine. A ringwraith would have 'wraith powers.' but that's not the point. The mechanics I'm refering to a re about other things that are not necessary to the story. Even Michael Moorcock never went into excruciating detail of Dr. Jests techniques, for instance, merely enough to imply that being his victim was a horror beyond belief. Do you need to know the exact powers you get from vile acts and the dice mechanic to make sure you did the vile act correctly? Ring wraiths are said by Tolkien to be corrupted by their greed and the effect of the one ring. Not 'they sacrificed 100 virgins after sodomizing them and biting off their nipples, because that's how it's done.'

I would LOVE to know where you got all this inside info. Did Monte Cook personally tell about the sodomy and nipple-biting, or did you come up with that all by yourself?


This is some priceless stuff you wrote. Have you even read anything by Monte Cook? Has he done the sort of thing you describe in the past? Are we even talking about the same Monte Cook?

A good storyteller doesn't need such exposition in the first place to create a mood.

No, I certainly wouldn't want to read a story describing what you wrote. But then even George R.R. Martin, whose fantasy is gritty to say the LEAST, doesn't rely on such things. D&D should NOT be those weird S&M rituals you describe (and nothing indicates the BoVD will change that), but then again it shouldn't be all prancing through flowery meadows either. And some people WOULD like a book to cover certain angles they haven't considered, and mechanics to help these angles come out into play.

 

[NeghVar]

NeghVar, does it hurt to be so right?

Only when I laugh!

Later!

 

[Maraxle]

You don't need rules for these things. As my first post suggested, these should be story effects, not mechanical effects and they should be seen from a more human viewpoint, not the viewpoint of how to do them.

That's the truth... and exactly what I was trying to say on my previous post. Of course, as usual, some twit decided to twist my words and nitpick the way I phrased something. Which is why this is my final post.

 

[barsoomcore]

Do you need to know the exact powers you get from vile acts and the dice mechanic to make sure you did the vile act correctly?

Quite possibly, yes. I need to know, for example, the exact powers I get from sneaky acts (Bluff, Hide, Move Silently). Why not vile acts?

Ring wraiths are said by Tolkien to be corrupted by their greed and the effect of the one ring. Not 'they sacrificed 100 virgins after sodomizing them and biting off their nipples, because that's how it's done.'

And you think BoVD will include this sort of information because...

D&D is a high profile example of RPGs. It's market is larger than university kids and old D&D vets. Putting the D&D Logo on BoVD will damage the family oriented aspects of roleplaying and discourage parents from allowing their children, a vital source of new players, to participate.

Does Universal Pictures releasing XXX discourage parents from allowing their children to see other Universal Pictures releases? Um, no.

D&D is not mainstream enough to survive an attack by the media similar to the one aimed at computer games after Columbine.

D&D has already survived such attacks and is now stronger than ever. Your evidence?

My belief that the release of this book is a marketing ploy is not a conspiracy theory, but the professional opinion of a Marketing person.

Fine. Your evidence?

A good storyteller doesn't need such exposition in the first place to create a mood.

Yes, they often do. Stephen King certainly does. As does Michael Moorcock, your comments on Dr. Jest notwithstanding. The Jerry Cornelius books are full of detailed descriptions of sodomy, murder and other fun stuff. Maybe "full off" is overstating the case, but anyways. A good storyteller includes just the details required to acheive the effect desired.

 

[Hakkenshi]

How do you sodomize someone of the opposite sex?

I hope you're kidding Tiefling, 'cause I don't think anyone can post the answer on the board without getting mauled by a Fiendish Dire Panda.

 

[Dr Midnight]

Face it everyone: no amount of whine nor worry will stop this book from seeing print. Nothing you people say or do at these forums or countless others will be able to force WotC to change their minds about a book that is slated for release THIS SOON.

Nothing.

Nada.

This is discussion about the book on a messageboard, in a thread about the book. Why can't we discuss it... and why are you assuming people are attempting to halt its release? I think you should reread some of the viewpoints here.

 

[NeghVar]

As for the artwork in the book being to "mature" in content...

Perhaps you should go to every book store in the area and make sure they are not placing D&D books next to artbooks by Royo (which I own all of), Frank Frazetta, Boris Valejo, Brom, and so on.

I for one was impressed with the art preview for BoVD at GenCon.

Later!