Booting a player from your group
- Thread starter candidus_cogitens
- Start date
WizarDru
Adventurer
fusangite said:
I really don't recommend doing any of these. They're just ducking the unpleasantness for a while, at best, and sooner or later they will find out, and be even more upset than if you did it directly.
You don't have to be rude or insultingly direct to tell the player that he's not working out with a group. Be honest, though it may be difficult. Explain that there are issues centered around playstyle, and that the player's style doesn't match yours or the other players. Perhaps give the player a chance to opt out on their own, or even bow out the character gracefully over a session or two. This tends to diffuse some of the tension, and eases feelings all around. An intelligent player will already know there's issues, and may have even shared the same thoughts without discussing it with you. If you're really concerned about a direct confontation, use the phone or e-mail.
Either way, more hard feelings will be generated by trying to avoid the issue than meeting it head on. Treat your player like an adult, and he's got a greater tendency to act like one.
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After you have...
...spoken with him privately about the problems and found that to be no help.
...had events in game also try to show him the issues and more positive ways of handling things and found that to be no help.
... perhaps had other players, one's closer to him, speak with him about the problems and found that to be no help.
...examined you own actions to make sure you were not culpable for the situation and that it does indeed rest on his shoulders.
Then and only then...
take him aside, explain calmly that its not working out and that he needs to find a Gm or group more suitable for his needs. I will usually explain it as "probably a weakness or lack in my GMing but i cannot seem to make this work out. You need a better Gm than me."
and so on.
...spoken with him privately about the problems and found that to be no help.
...had events in game also try to show him the issues and more positive ways of handling things and found that to be no help.
... perhaps had other players, one's closer to him, speak with him about the problems and found that to be no help.
...examined you own actions to make sure you were not culpable for the situation and that it does indeed rest on his shoulders.
Then and only then...
take him aside, explain calmly that its not working out and that he needs to find a Gm or group more suitable for his needs. I will usually explain it as "probably a weakness or lack in my GMing but i cannot seem to make this work out. You need a better Gm than me."
and so on.
Ashrum the Black
Explorer
Petrosian .....
I only wish I had had you as my DM, things could have worked out so much better. Very good advice.
I only wish I had had you as my DM, things could have worked out so much better. Very good advice.
Leopold
NKL4LYFE
I have had to warn players who were being disruptive or generally doing things out of character that they shouldn't.
I have only had 2 people 'quit' my game. One person just never showed up again (all his PC's were the same anyway and were annoying), the second just said "I lost the heart for the game" which roughly translate into "My wife doesn't let me play and I have too much other stuff she wants me to do".
Also #2 wanted us to start at 4pm and play till 8pm and then move. We normally play from 2pm till 11pm and that was unacceptable.
I sternly warn players who are causing troulbe in my games by pulling them aside and talking to them about the issues that i am having with them and the way they are acting. If all is resolved we shake and move back to the playing area. If it's not resolved I ask them how they wish to resolve it and then go from there. Does it detract from play? Yes. But i would rather spend 10min to fix a problem rather than having the problem linger for several hours.
Honesty with examples on problems and how to resolve them on your side make things work smoothly. Booting a person out, just follow the above advice and add in "It's not working out for me and for you". I never blame myself for this mess as above, that's a copout and I don't want to feel the self-guilt that that entails.
I have only had 2 people 'quit' my game. One person just never showed up again (all his PC's were the same anyway and were annoying), the second just said "I lost the heart for the game" which roughly translate into "My wife doesn't let me play and I have too much other stuff she wants me to do".
Also #2 wanted us to start at 4pm and play till 8pm and then move. We normally play from 2pm till 11pm and that was unacceptable.
I sternly warn players who are causing troulbe in my games by pulling them aside and talking to them about the issues that i am having with them and the way they are acting. If all is resolved we shake and move back to the playing area. If it's not resolved I ask them how they wish to resolve it and then go from there. Does it detract from play? Yes. But i would rather spend 10min to fix a problem rather than having the problem linger for several hours.
Honesty with examples on problems and how to resolve them on your side make things work smoothly. Booting a person out, just follow the above advice and add in "It's not working out for me and for you". I never blame myself for this mess as above, that's a copout and I don't want to feel the self-guilt that that entails.
Arnwyn
First Post
Some very good advice here.
I highly recommend discussing the problems with the offending player before resorting to a "booting". As many others have said, be honest and up front, and do it as soon as possible. When discussing, I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned more often: use specific examples . The "whys" are so important here.
Just using a nebulous statement such as "we don't have chemistry" will surely result in more hard feelings than is necessary. Specific examples will show exactly what you have problems with, and gives the offending player a chance to rectify his/her behaviour (or at the very least, improve his/her understanding of the situation). "This is how we play, this is what you do, this is why it causes these particular problems."
Once the specific problems have been discussed, and the offending behaviour continues, then asking the player to leave can be done much more easily. Again, honest and direct, using examples from the previous discussion. Referring back to the previous discussion (highlighting the problems that were occuring) will make dismissal easier. Stick with the facts, don't get emotional, and be very polite. (You don't have to be *overly* direct, or blunt, or rude to get your point across.)
Rational discussion highlighting specific examples of problems and conflicting play styles (and their consequences) goes a long way to diffusing a possible volatile situation.
Edit:
Conflict-resolution at places of work is much the same way, and has worked well in the past. Oh, and what a previous poster mentioned: taking the high road with the "it's not you, it's me" approach is also very good.
I highly recommend discussing the problems with the offending player before resorting to a "booting". As many others have said, be honest and up front, and do it as soon as possible. When discussing, I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned more often: use specific examples . The "whys" are so important here.
Just using a nebulous statement such as "we don't have chemistry" will surely result in more hard feelings than is necessary. Specific examples will show exactly what you have problems with, and gives the offending player a chance to rectify his/her behaviour (or at the very least, improve his/her understanding of the situation). "This is how we play, this is what you do, this is why it causes these particular problems."
Once the specific problems have been discussed, and the offending behaviour continues, then asking the player to leave can be done much more easily. Again, honest and direct, using examples from the previous discussion. Referring back to the previous discussion (highlighting the problems that were occuring) will make dismissal easier. Stick with the facts, don't get emotional, and be very polite. (You don't have to be *overly* direct, or blunt, or rude to get your point across.)
Rational discussion highlighting specific examples of problems and conflicting play styles (and their consequences) goes a long way to diffusing a possible volatile situation.
Edit:
Conflict-resolution at places of work is much the same way, and has worked well in the past. Oh, and what a previous poster mentioned: taking the high road with the "it's not you, it's me" approach is also very good.
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I said:
The wizardru said:
This completely depends on social context. I would not recommend the first and second options I offered if this person is close-knit part of your social sphere who is going to continue to be part of it. However, if you're only relating to this person via gaming or want to cut him or her out of your life, why not lie to spare people the hassle and awkwardness?
Also, one point I neglected to make early on, in many cases, simply informing the person that they're offending people or that other people are not enjoying gaming with them is usually enough to make them quit without you ever having to kick anybody out.
The wizardru said:
This completely depends on social context. I would not recommend the first and second options I offered if this person is close-knit part of your social sphere who is going to continue to be part of it. However, if you're only relating to this person via gaming or want to cut him or her out of your life, why not lie to spare people the hassle and awkwardness?
Also, one point I neglected to make early on, in many cases, simply informing the person that they're offending people or that other people are not enjoying gaming with them is usually enough to make them quit without you ever having to kick anybody out.
WizarDru
Adventurer
fusangite said:
True. I guess I've never gamed with people who weren't at least peripherally part of some of the players or the DM's social circle. If this person is not going to interact with any of the players or DM outside of the game, I supposed just cancelling the game and restarting without him would work...but I don't favor it, myself. Personally, I wouldn't want the awkwardness that occurs if two players are friends, and we dump one and then he finds out later, as he invariably will. I've seen those kind of scenarios, and they had a ripple effect on other relationships that was unpleasant. YMMV.
Oddly enough, I'm in a similar situation on the opposite end of the spectrum. When I was a senior in high school, I fell in with a group of other high school students who were playing a game (I hesitate to use the word "campaign" out of respect for what a campaign usually is) at the FLGS. These were people I had known for a while (some as friends, others as acquaintances), so I sort of had an idea of what I was in for from the start.
Ten minutes into the first session, all my worst fears were confirmed: this was a group of rules-lawyering, non-RPing munchkins who barely knew the fundamentals of the system and wore their diplomacy on the end of their swords, so to speak. We were playing The Sunless Citadel (SPOILERS AHEAD), which created opportunities for all kinds of wackiness. Kobolds grappled us (interesting when the DM didn't know the rules for grappling), the group's wizard attacked the Kobold queen just enough to piss her off, but not enough to kill her, etc. I think the worst part was when we found the keg with the water mephit in it. The DM's description was something along the lines of "It looks like.... a water mephit." (Because of course a group of first level characters would know what that is.) The combat ended up being ridiculously easy because the DM didn't use ANY of the mephit's special attacks for its flight.
After several sessions of this, I decided I had to quit the group. Somehow though, I couldn't bring myself to do it, worried that I'd lose a few good friends in the process. Eventually, I escaped the group by going off to college, but now christmas break is coming, and the same group is talking about playing a Call of Cthulhu game... (shudder)
Ten minutes into the first session, all my worst fears were confirmed: this was a group of rules-lawyering, non-RPing munchkins who barely knew the fundamentals of the system and wore their diplomacy on the end of their swords, so to speak. We were playing The Sunless Citadel (SPOILERS AHEAD), which created opportunities for all kinds of wackiness. Kobolds grappled us (interesting when the DM didn't know the rules for grappling), the group's wizard attacked the Kobold queen just enough to piss her off, but not enough to kill her, etc. I think the worst part was when we found the keg with the water mephit in it. The DM's description was something along the lines of "It looks like.... a water mephit." (Because of course a group of first level characters would know what that is.) The combat ended up being ridiculously easy because the DM didn't use ANY of the mephit's special attacks for its flight.
After several sessions of this, I decided I had to quit the group. Somehow though, I couldn't bring myself to do it, worried that I'd lose a few good friends in the process. Eventually, I escaped the group by going off to college, but now christmas break is coming, and the same group is talking about playing a Call of Cthulhu game... (shudder)
candidus_cogitens
Explorer
Since initially creating this thread, and having read all of your helpful advice, I have come to this conclusion: Gaming groups are often quite different from other social groups. This is true in two ways.
First, sometimes people form gaming groups with people that they do not and would not otherwise consider friends. We sometimes even game with people that we really don't like.
Secondly, people do not always act like themselves when they game. Obviously, when you roleplay, you bring out different, sometimes hidden, aspects of your personality. Not to mention the matter of different gaming "styles," i.e. preferences about what gaming/roleplaying is all about and how it should be done.
In my current situation, the problem is mainly that several of us in the group just don't like this guy. It's not that he's that bad of a roleplayer, or that he is incredibly disruptive (although he is sometimes disruptive). It's more that he just rubs us the wrong way, and sometimes says things that are quite abrasive. In short, he's just not somebody that I want to invite into my home on a regular basis.
First, sometimes people form gaming groups with people that they do not and would not otherwise consider friends. We sometimes even game with people that we really don't like.
Secondly, people do not always act like themselves when they game. Obviously, when you roleplay, you bring out different, sometimes hidden, aspects of your personality. Not to mention the matter of different gaming "styles," i.e. preferences about what gaming/roleplaying is all about and how it should be done.
In my current situation, the problem is mainly that several of us in the group just don't like this guy. It's not that he's that bad of a roleplayer, or that he is incredibly disruptive (although he is sometimes disruptive). It's more that he just rubs us the wrong way, and sometimes says things that are quite abrasive. In short, he's just not somebody that I want to invite into my home on a regular basis.
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