D&D General Boredom in "Zero to Hero" Campaigns

[Oofta]

Personally I really enjoy low level play, particularly with a group that is into the role play aspects of it. Yeah, you aren't going to be facing down literal dragons (more like running away) but that doesn't mean you can't have drama, excitement and intrigue. The big bad of the lower levels may be the corrupt sheriff who turns out to be a minor flunky of some big bad. Or the group is just thrown into the fray as they fight for their lives against the invading army. Maybe they're refugees on the run or were drafted to be part of that invading army only to realize that they are the bad guys.

Lots of options other than just clearing out the rats in the basement. Or if they are clearing out the rats in the basement they find out they're actually dealing with wererats who are immune to all of their weapons.

But if you don't find those things enjoyable, just start at slightly higher level. It's not like there is any restriction on starting level.

 

[Dausuul]

I think it's mostly a failure of imagination on the part of adventure designers. If you want to write the same kind of adventure at every level--hear about a dungeon, go to the dungeon, clear the dungeon, kill the boss, you win--then you end up with a treadmill where you fight giant rats and kobolds at low levels, and monstrous half-dragon rats and kobold sorcerers at mid-levels, and epic tarrasque rats and Pun-Pun at high levels. (And this has become a self-reinforcing cycle with the rise of MMOs, which are actually designed to keep you on a treadmill, and this has the effect of training the next generation of adventure designers to imitate them.)

But, as you observe, it doesn't have to be that way. Red Hand of Doom follows what I'd call the "Winter Is Coming" model: There is a huge impending threat, and the low levels are spent uncovering the scope of that threat while fighting its scouts and harbingers. It makes for a great story and it also provides a natural progression of enemies as Winter draws closer.

Another option is to use high-level threats throughout, but have the players engage with them in different ways--evading, hiding, and sneaking at low levels, setting traps and ambushes at mid-levels, and wading in to slug it out toe-to-toe at high levels. This one is trickier because it requires the players to be okay with a shifting style of game; you can't just murderhobo from start to finish. But it could be really interesting if done well.

 

[Mercurius]

While it always easy to start at higher levels, I hear your point and would have liked to see a section in the DMG or PHB for higher level starting points, if only to set the stage for what they mean beyond level numbering. Fo instance:

Level 1: You've finished your apprenticeship/training and are ready to seek your fortune/make a name for yourself/engage in some questing.

Level 3: You have established yourself as a bonafide adventurer, a true journeyman, if not yet having made a name for yourself. You've been on the streets, so to speak.

Level 5: You are a seasoned adventurer and starting to make a name for yourself in your locale.

Level 10: You are a bonafide hero, a true master of your craft, known throughout your region.

Or something like that.

 

[Asisreo]

While it always easy to start at higher levels, I hear your point and would have liked to see a section in the DMG or PHB for higher level starting points, if only to set the stage for what they mean beyond level numbering. Fo instance:

Level 1: You've finished your apprenticeship/training and are ready to seek your fortune/make a name for yourself/engage in some questing.

Level 3: You have established yourself as a bonafide adventurer, a true journeyman, if not yet having made a name for yourself. You've been on the streets, so to speak.

Level 5: You are a seasoned adventurer and starting to make a name for yourself in your locale.

Level 10: You are a bonafide hero, a true master of your craft, known throughout your region.

Or something like that.

They have the Tiers of Play in the DMG pg 36-38 which describes each tier as well as a description.

For instance, the 1st tier goes from 1-4 and is called "Local Heroes" where much of their gear and magic items are common and mundane. Magic doesn't affect much at this tier, either.

 

[Tonguez]

I once started a 3e game with the characters as Level 0 villagers, using the NPC classes. The game started with the Village attacked in the night by the Dark Sorcerer and his dragonborn raiders, the PCs having no way to beat the raiders in combat are forced to flee. The next morning the surviving villagers are hiding in the forest being hunted down by the raiders.

The PCs are given the task of locating as many survivors as they can and leading them north to an old abandoned forttress. Its during this adventure where the PCs are using stealth to locate survivors and avoid getting caught that they level up, subsequently the move north means they have to clear the fortress of kobolds and make it secure for the villagers to live in.

so anyway, if you want to avoid having to fight rats then

1 make the first event big and meaningful
2 overcoming a challenge doesnt require combat
3 use skills and social interaction
4 combat can still be fun - promote teamwork vs threats

 

[GMMichael]

The question I pose is this: Is there an assumption of mundane, trite adventures baked into the D&D experience? If so, what should one do about that? Start at higher levels? Somehow try to make beginning levels more interesting and impactful on the campaign?

"Tomb of Annihilation" and "Curse of Strahd" (5e, levels 1-13*): These two regularly come up as the best officially produced 5e adventures. While both start nominally at 1st level, they each encourage the DMs to quickly skip through the first few levels or present a short intro quest that has little to do with the plot (and isn't considered a strong part of the adventure.)

Why is D&D so miserly about giving characters an epic beginning to their stories? Is it because the default assumption is that you're going to be playing in a campaign that will last months (or years), so you've got to keep from getting too big too fast?

Is there an assumption? Yes. If you work at WotC and have statues of red dragons near your cubicle, you'll probably be thinking on a daily basis, "I am sooo sick of that thing. I wish someone would destroy it. I should skip to the good stuff and write that into my high-level adventure." The best way to get to dragon-killing level is by starting off killing goblins and rats. If you want a person to seem cool and intimidating, just put some really snazzy armor on him.

ToA and CoS feature a D&D selling point: leveling up. What good is a class-table-of-coolness if you don't get to use it?

1st level doesn't have to be zero-level. Create some level 1 dragons to fight. Introduce some people in the campaign. They can be interesting and dangerous, and they're not goblins and rats.

Variety is always good. If every scenario is “you GMs and grab their stuff” it’ll be boring a some stage no matter if it’s rats or dragons.

I don't know. That scenario sounds pretty fun to me!

 

[Umbran]

The question I pose is this: Is there an assumption of mundane, trite adventures baked into the D&D experience? If so, what should one do about that?

Use it as an opportunity to not worry so much about mechanics at the start and establish character.

 

[Stormdale]

I prefer more time per level so award a set amount of xp per week and typicially means that players spend about 6-8 weeks per level (though 3-4 weeks at levels 1-3).

I'm playing in a game with a group of newbies, the DM is good but is racing through the levels and most of the players haven't a clue how to run characters abilities, less is more IMO and players need time to learn ther characters abilities and get used to playing at each level.

IMO though the problem is the "adventure path" model ranging from levels 1-12 (or 15 or whatever), there is only so much variety that can be placed by designers to the adventure and the arc. I loved ToA but the premise is absolutely ridiclous- send a 1st level party out to save the world, then spend a number of weeks grinding up levels to them do so. ToA worked well in my game as I threw it into an existing campaign (about level 7-8 pcs IIRC) and they made beeline for the Tomb as a couple of pcs were afflicted by the curse and wanted to figure put why they were losing hps and then wanted it ended!

WoTC have ALREADY published the solution IMO, shorter, tigher adventure (and thereby more interesting/ less railroady) arcs such as Lost Mines or Dragon of Icespire Peak which DMs can mix and match into a larger campaign. Local threats at levels 1-5, regional threats at levels 5-10 and larger level threats for levels 10+. DMs mix and match to create larger campaigns.

Get rid of the save the world arcs (yawn, what? Not again) and create a tight story arc for each tier and do one or two of those "tiered" adventure arcs per year. My suggestions for the first one: Scourge of the Slavelords a tier 2 adventure for levels 5-10

Alas the current model works for them so can't see WoTC changing it.

Stormdale

 

[Stormdale]

Just thought of another example of combining arcs.

Lost mines of Phandelver followed by several months downtime (you know that stuff baked into the rules already). after the pcs ahve bene kicking their heels for a while a new threat emerges on the borders of Phandalin an army of humanoids threatens the town. boom updated version of Red Hand of Doom (levels 6-10)

Stormdale

 

[Lanefan]

There's different options for very-low-level adventures than just fighting rats and kobolds and orcs (though those are fun too). Some ideas:

--- the party are sent by prospective patrons or employers on a practice run to map a dungeon that's already been cleared out (into which the DM can drop story hooks all over the place if desired)
--- the party are sent on a scouting, spying or intelligence-gathering mission that - ideally - involves little or no combat
--- corollary to the last one, the party stumble on to a key item (e.g. a broken tomb seal) or info piece (e.g. an assassination plot against a noble) and have to get said item or info to the right place/person such that it can be dealt with
--- another, much more powerful adventuring party is set up as a distraction, while the PC party are given an important item (or person) with their task being to get said item or person safely to another place.
--- the party think they're entering a typical rat-fighting dungeon but the place is in fact a maze or madhouse (shifting halls, teleporters, etc.) where the true challenges are resource management and finding the way out.

I could run all five of these in sequence without the party getting past 2nd level, and with any luck it'd still be engaging and interesting. (though in reality I'd for sure throw a combat-heavier one in there somewhere, just to give the warriors something to do ).