D&D General Boredom in "Zero to Hero" Campaigns

Li Shenron

Legend
You can start at what
D&D, especially in the current edition, seems focused on large 1-13 level campaign adventures. I'm not inherently against starting at Level 1 (especially for new players), but when you've been playing for years, Level 1 adventures take on a sameness: goblin ambushes, lesser undead in the cemetery, rats in the tavern basement, etc. Unfortunately, this design paradigm means that some players (and DMs) get bored before the campaign gets around to "the good stuff."

The question I pose is this: Is there an assumption of mundane, trite adventures baked into the D&D experience? If so, what should one do about that? Start at higher levels? Somehow try to make beginning levels more interesting and impactful on the campaign?

Consider a few examples.

"The Red Hand of Doom" (3.5 ed, levels 6-12): This is considered one of the best officially produced adventures from the 3.x era. It doesn't start at 1st level with rat infestations in basements. Instead, the characters are thrust in a regional conflict and war. It jumps ahead to "start at the good stuff."

"Tomb of Annihilation" and "Curse of Strahd" (5e, levels 1-13*): These two regularly come up as the best officially produced 5e adventures. While both start nominally at 1st level, they each encourage the DMs to quickly skip through the first few levels or present a short intro quest that has little to do with the plot (and isn't considered a strong part of the adventure.)

I was thinking about this experience when I was reading a Savage World Point Plot Campaign that starts off with the heroes being told an asteroid is on a trajectory to hit their planet, so they must charter a ship and fly to the asteroid and destroy it with a nuclear warhead to save the planet. This is the opening of the campaign, and really starts it with a (literal) bang. But in D&D our heroes are killing rats in basements?!! Fighting goblins who rob merchants on the road?

Why is D&D so miserly about giving characters an epic beginning to their stories? Is it because the default assumption is that you're going to be playing in a campaign that will last months (or years), so you've got to keep from getting too big too fast?

Mmm... there's kind of multiple layers with adventure design. Some random musings of mine here...

One thing about the starting level is that it sets the audience. When I want to start a new adventure, I always look at the stated starting level to decide what to pick, and I guess this is what most DMs do. If we are currently at 5th level, I'd be looking for 5th level adventures. WotC knows the statistics and have already said before that there are a lot more gaming groups playing at low levels. But what do you know when you cannot find an adventure that matches your group's current level? If you don't want to create your own, and you have to pick an adventure which is either lower or higher, what do DMs do? Do they pick the lower level adventure and "buff it up" with more or bigger monsters, or do they pick the higher level adventure and "tone it down" (or buff the PCs)? To each his own, but my bet is that it's easier (and more fun!) to increase the difficulty than decrease it, so I would look for 4th level adventures, then 3rd, then 2nd... As a matter of fact, you don't even have to necessarily increase the difficulty, D&D has a self-balancing mechanism in the fact that if the adventure is too easy, the PCs can push forward faster by taking less rest and more encounters (unless the DM forces a specific adventure calendar). WotC probably decided that, in lieu of the majority of gaming groups probably playing in tier 1, it's better to stretch the adventure start down to 1st level to capture maximum audience, than to start at 5th and have many groups not even looking at the adventure.

Another matter is how long the adventure is. In previous editions we had shorter adventures, there were a lot of published adventures which accounted for a single level-up before the end, although maybe 3-4 level-ups was considered also a standard. But I also remember that at some point people starting to want whole campaign paths or story arcs, probably because writing short homebrew adventures is easy enough but for longer ones you might want to rely on professionals to do it for you. Maybe this is the reason why WotC decided to publish almost exclusively the latter kind for 5e (I think Tales from the Spiral Staircase is the only exception, or maybe there is more?) but it doesn't have to stay the same forever.

Next thing to consider, is the separation of narrative and difficulty. It's a fact that character level matters mostly for 2 things: combat encounters, and bypassing challenges (e.g. high-level PCs having capabilities for teleporting, scrying, flying etc. that lower-level PCs don't). The two things can be separated, so you can have "save the world" scenarios at level 1, as well as "clear the rats" scenarios at level 20 (yeah that sounds quite a stretch... but I take a note to myself: try one day to come up with a "infinite rats" challenge and see if 20th levels character really find a way to solve it, since it won't be anymore a matter of simply killing them all!).

Someone else has also mentioned the very important fact that adventures are not only about battles... There are a lot of other things to do, from exploration to investigation to social encounters to crime-solving, and these actually work better when the PCs don't yet have bypass spells and abilities. But they are harder to design, and many groups just want to do battles anyway. I think no designer would risk not having at least some combat in every adventure.

---

One thing that is a pet peeve of mine, is that level should probably match more with the players' skills than with the character story. I know this is hard to swallow, but the traditional idea that level represents a character's own development has drawbacks. We all know how suspension of disbelief is shaken when you have characters going from 1st to 20th in a year, then have nothing more to learn, or when you have a 20th-level teenager or viceversa you start at 1st level being an old wizard. Not to mention how many times people feel the need to introduce rules to represent training because they can't stand the PCs gaining levels while sleeping in a dungeon.

The reality is that I don't believe level was really created for narrative purposes... I think it was created to take the players forward with the game. If you can manage to see that level is for the players rather than the characters, you worry less about how the narrative matches the level. That for me also means that a published adventure starting at 1st level guarantees that the players aren't rushing towards a character complexity they cannot currently handle, and they can learn gradually how to use a new PC's abilities.

Then of course if your players are really experienced and have already played a lot of PCs, and don't need another refresher on combat superiority maneuvers or spells, then it's totally fine to start at higher level already.
 

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ccs

41st lv DM
The point is, the campaign does not have a "singular focus". It has a focus for Tier 1, "Kill the Vampire" for tier 2, something else tier 3, something else tier 4. You can use CoS exactly the same way as you use I6 - drop it in as an episode in an ongoing series.

Yes, I'm well aware of that. I know how to DM.

MY point was that I don't like playing (as a PC ) long single focus campaigns. Wich is how many DMs run things these days.
 

MY point was that I don't like playing (as a PC ) long single focus campaigns. Wich is how many DMs run things these days.
So? What has that got to do with the price of fish? If your DM is in the habit of running long single focus campaigns tell them. There is nothing in the rules making them do it.
 

D&D, especially in the current edition, seems focused on large 1-13 level campaign adventures. I'm not inherently against starting at Level 1 (especially for new players), but when you've been playing for years, Level 1 adventures take on a sameness: goblin ambushes, lesser undead in the cemetery, rats in the tavern basement, etc. Unfortunately, this design paradigm means that some players (and DMs) get bored before the campaign gets around to "the good stuff."

The question I pose is this: Is there an assumption of mundane, trite adventures baked into the D&D experience? If so, what should one do about that? Start at higher levels? Somehow try to make beginning levels more interesting and impactful on the campaign?

Consider a few examples.

"The Red Hand of Doom" (3.5 ed, levels 6-12): This is considered one of the best officially produced adventures from the 3.x era. It doesn't start at 1st level with rat infestations in basements. Instead, the characters are thrust in a regional conflict and war. It jumps ahead to "start at the good stuff."

"Tomb of Annihilation" and "Curse of Strahd" (5e, levels 1-13*): These two regularly come up as the best officially produced 5e adventures. While both start nominally at 1st level, they each encourage the DMs to quickly skip through the first few levels or present a short intro quest that has little to do with the plot (and isn't considered a strong part of the adventure.)

I was thinking about this experience when I was reading a Savage World Point Plot Campaign that starts off with the heroes being told an asteroid is on a trajectory to hit their planet, so they must charter a ship and fly to the asteroid and destroy it with a nuclear warhead to save the planet. This is the opening of the campaign, and really starts it with a (literal) bang. But in D&D our heroes are killing rats in basements?!! Fighting goblins who rob merchants on the road?

Why is D&D so miserly about giving characters an epic beginning to their stories? Is it because the default assumption is that you're going to be playing in a campaign that will last months (or years), so you've got to keep from getting too big too fast?
Those are great questions. I suppose it is because of the flexibility the game provides (and always has provided). I mean, nothing is stopping a DM from taking an adventure and having the players start at the last dungeon at the appropriate level. Just give them the backstory and toss them in. DM's can (and do) level characters every session. That's twenty sessions to reach the pentacle. Or they use experience points and it takes years. This flexibility is their "out."

I do think players like to see growth too. I know my friends and I really like that part of the game, so there is that.

And, D&D AP's are built for the masses. The masses like starting at the base of the mountain. But there is that flexibility, D&D "out," that allows the smaller percentage that don't like starting at the base to take the tram up. Rise of Tiamat is an example. You can completely skip Hoard of the Dragon Queen, and jump to higher level play.

Lastly, you are right about Strahd and Tomb. It is not only encouraged, but almost necessary. I mean the wandering monster table in Chult is harrowing! Assassin vines? On a second level group. 3 of them. That is not assassination, it's slaughter! ;)
 

Dausuul

Legend
Maybe the disconnect that I'm feeling after reading that Plot Point campaign is that in other systems, the Player Characters are THE heroes. If something is going to be done, it's on them, not some random 7th level fighter, or epic level wizard NPC. I know this can give the campaign world a feeling of verisimilitude, of a sense of vastness, but it also has the effect of making characters feel like they are level grinding or running errands for the real heroes until they come of age.
The thing about a low-level adventure is that there are going to be NPCs who are significantly more powerful than the party. That's just how the D&D power curve works. And if your players are anything like mine, their first (quite sensible) response when faced with a big challenge is to look for allies. So if you don't want the PCs to end up as spear carriers for Elminster and Drizzt, you need a reason why the Big Heroes aren't stepping in to save the day.

Unfortunately, a lot of designers fall back on the easy answer: "This problem is too small for the Big Heroes to waste their time on it, so you get the job." This accomplishes the goal but means the stakes of the adventure are frustratingly low. I prefer other solutions such as:
  • The threat is immediate and the Big Heroes are not here. There is no time to go get them. You're on your own.
  • The Big Heroes do not know about the problem and you have no way to alert them. You're on your own.
  • The villain has taken steps to keep the Big Heroes distracted or occupied. You're on your own.
  • The Big Heroes do step in to save the day... and get smoked. Ruh roh.
(The last one is great fun for the DM, and makes the PCs' ultimate victory that much more satisfying, but can lead to players giving up in despair if you aren't careful.)
 

Wasteland Knight

Adventurer
So? What has that got to do with the price of fish? If your DM is in the habit of running long single focus campaigns tell them. There is nothing in the rules making them do it.

Exactly. I’ve played in long single focus campaigns, total sandbox campaigns, and sort of ad-hoc campaigns, where we’d focus on something for 1 to 3 levels and then on to a totally new area/focus.

I think the prevalence of long, single focus games these days is probably due in part to the rise of “adventure path” style published material. When you consider prep time, if a GM uses a published adventure path pretty much as written, that’s a lot of table time with very little ongoing prep.

But yes, D&D in any of its various forms is perfectly playable on any format. So if a DM is running a long campaign with a singular focus, that’s their decision not based on the ruleset.
 
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oriaxx77

Explorer
D&D, especially in the current edition, seems focused on large 1-13 level campaign adventures. I'm not inherently against starting at Level 1 (especially for new players), but when you've been playing for years, Level 1 adventures take on a sameness: goblin ambushes, lesser undead in the cemetery, rats in the tavern basement, etc. Unfortunately, this design paradigm means that some players (and DMs) get bored before the campaign gets around to "the good stuff."

The question I pose is this: Is there an assumption of mundane, trite adventures baked into the D&D experience? If so, what should one do about that? Start at higher levels? Somehow try to make beginning levels more interesting and impactful on the campaign?

Consider a few examples.

"The Red Hand of Doom" (3.5 ed, levels 6-12): This is considered one of the best officially produced adventures from the 3.x era. It doesn't start at 1st level with rat infestations in basements. Instead, the characters are thrust in a regional conflict and war. It jumps ahead to "start at the good stuff."

"Tomb of Annihilation" and "Curse of Strahd" (5e, levels 1-13*): These two regularly come up as the best officially produced 5e adventures. While both start nominally at 1st level, they each encourage the DMs to quickly skip through the first few levels or present a short intro quest that has little to do with the plot (and isn't considered a strong part of the adventure.)

I was thinking about this experience when I was reading a Savage World Point Plot Campaign that starts off with the heroes being told an asteroid is on a trajectory to hit their planet, so they must charter a ship and fly to the asteroid and destroy it with a nuclear warhead to save the planet. This is the opening of the campaign, and really starts it with a (literal) bang. But in D&D our heroes are killing rats in basements?!! Fighting goblins who rob merchants on the road?

Why is D&D so miserly about giving characters an epic beginning to their stories? Is it because the default assumption is that you're going to be playing in a campaign that will last months (or years), so you've got to keep from getting too big too fast?
Keep the story and give different stats to the monsters. We started ToA at level 10. Problem solved. You should not care about the balance. If you know your players you will be more or less right. I always do this. It requires minimal effort. A published wotc module usually covers 2-4 levels. It works for us.
 

oriaxx77

Explorer
D&D, especially in the current edition, seems focused on large 1-13 level campaign adventures. I'm not inherently against starting at Level 1 (especially for new players), but when you've been playing for years, Level 1 adventures take on a sameness: goblin ambushes, lesser undead in the cemetery, rats in the tavern basement, etc. Unfortunately, this design paradigm means that some players (and DMs) get bored before the campaign gets around to "the good stuff."

The question I pose is this: Is there an assumption of mundane, trite adventures baked into the D&D experience? If so, what should one do about that? Start at higher levels? Somehow try to make beginning levels more interesting and impactful on the campaign?

Consider a few examples.

"The Red Hand of Doom" (3.5 ed, levels 6-12): This is considered one of the best officially produced adventures from the 3.x era. It doesn't start at 1st level with rat infestations in basements. Instead, the characters are thrust in a regional conflict and war. It jumps ahead to "start at the good stuff."

"Tomb of Annihilation" and "Curse of Strahd" (5e, levels 1-13*): These two regularly come up as the best officially produced 5e adventures. While both start nominally at 1st level, they each encourage the DMs to quickly skip through the first few levels or present a short intro quest that has little to do with the plot (and isn't considered a strong part of the adventure.)

I was thinking about this experience when I was reading a Savage World Point Plot Campaign that starts off with the heroes being told an asteroid is on a trajectory to hit their planet, so they must charter a ship and fly to the asteroid and destroy it with a nuclear warhead to save the planet. This is the opening of the campaign, and really starts it with a (literal) bang. But in D&D our heroes are killing rats in basements?!! Fighting goblins who rob merchants on the road?

Why is D&D so miserly about giving characters an epic beginning to their stories? Is it because the default assumption is that you're going to be playing in a campaign that will last months (or years), so you've got to keep from getting too big too fast?
We always thought that aventure paths are for teenagers who require guidance because of the lack of gaming experience. Railroadading works very well as a teaching aid.
 

This is an interesting thread. I often hear people complaining that they're sick of "save the world" plots and wish D&D were a little bit more grounded. But sometimes I hear complaints like that of the OP, where people say it takes too long to reach "save the world" levels.

There are three issues here that overlap significantly:
  1. Personal preference. Some players want high stakes adventures early, some want them eventually, and some don't want them at all. Each of those preferences are perfectly valid.
  2. The mechanics. D&D's level-based advancement and design definitely creates a "zero to hero" arc for characters, which then gets mirrored in adventure design -- for better or worse.
  3. Adventure design. Most (but not all) low level adventures have low stakes. But they don't have to. The original Star Wars movie is a great model for a high-stakes, low-level adventure.
I think the solution to the OP's "problem" is simply to find reasons for low level characters to get involved in high stakes adventures. That's difficult, but not impossible. I would argue that WotC has already done it with Dragon Heist -- while flawed, it clearly is a low level adventure with high stakes.
 

This is an interesting thread. I often hear people complaining that they're sick of "save the world" plots and wish D&D were a little bit more grounded.
This is me. It just seems so done. I really cannot get motivated by 'the fate of the entire world/universe is at the stake' any more. It is too big, too unreal and I have seen it too may times. (The same with the same concept in the other media too.) Give me some sympathetic villagers that are afraid of trolls. That I can relate to.
 

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