[BOVD] Satan, a former Archdevil?

[Ashrem Bayle]

I finally got the BOVD Saturday and have been pouring over it off and on ever since. While doing this, I ran across an interesting bit of text that said something about long forgotten archdemons.

Two of the names for these supposed long gone archdemons was Satan and Lucifer.

Strange....

I thought that it would be pretty cool to reveal that Greyhawk was really earth 10,000 years after a cataclysmic war in heaven, hell, and on earth.

 

[Theuderic]

I remember reading a really cool article in an old Dragon magazine entitled The Politics Of Hell. It tells of how Satan got kicked out of hell and was replaced by another devil who in turn was replaced by yet another devil and so on. A very interesting article. If I had the magazine with me right now I would give you the number.

 

[Henry]

Cool story - I have a player who used to get very bad dice rolls, until he started growling "SATAN!" under his breath before rolling. Improved his d20 rolls by at least 5 or 6 points.

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Another thing that would make an interesting idea would be to find out that there is ONE true evil in the multiverses, and it is made up of a gestalt of all of the current princes of hell. A Mortal sick of life as it is undergoes a plan to re-unify all of the Hell-Dukes into this supreme being, and the PCs, ALONG WITH the forces of the Hells, fight side by side to prevent this from happening - what Devil Prince wants to lose his power to one supreme being that isn't him?

Now, put some Lawful and chaotic celestials on the other side of things, WANTING the unification to happen, because they believe one big evil will be able to destroy rather than a bunch of smaller ones.

Talk about your Gerrymandered Battle Lines!

 

[Grazzt]

And Lucifer (or Satan if you prefer) is gonna be detailed in the TOme of Horrors. (Sorry couldn't help it.)

 

[I'm A Banana]

I dunno....it's interesting from a story perspective, but I guess seeing stats for Satan codifies something that is and (IMHO) should be ambiguous....but then, I'm not a huge fan of stats for gods or anything, either, so I guess I'm biased...

*contemplates a Deity-A-Week write-up of Satan*

Interesting story ideas, though....very much.

I guess if I were ever to have a physical manifestation of Satan I would have to go with either a Dante-inspired visage (half-buried in ice, three faces and all), or a more Miltonian angel who looks just like any other angel....but probably pissed.

Just because I like to stay *real* close to the inspiring mythos.

 

[Alaric_Prympax]

The Politics of Hell

The Politics of Hell I agree is a great article. It was reprinted in the Best of Dragon Vol. 3, I don't remember which Dragon it appeared in originally.

In the article Satan was replaced but Beelzebul IIRC, also thrown out of Hell was Satan's Lieutenant who lead the Hosts of Hell, a devil named Belial, this is another Belial not to be confused with the Lord of Phlegethos, the 4th Layer of Hell.

Asmodeus later overthrew Beelzebul when he got the other Arch-Devils, who were not satisfied with his rule of Hell. The overthrow was done without fighting when Asmodeus approach Beelzebul and told him he lost the support of the other Arch-Devils. Asmodeus managed to prevent Beelzebul from attacking by convincing Beelzebul to call the most 'trustwrothy' of all the Arch-Devils: Astoroth, the Treasurer of Hell, the only Arch-Devil to ever refuse the rulership of a layer of Hell. When Astoroth enter the room he said "Hello Baalzebul, Hello Lord Asmodeus" Baalzebul knew he has already lost the conflict. Appearently the name change was highly signifigant showing that Beelzebul was no longer in charge of Hell. Asmodeus gave him the 6th and 7th layers of Hell to rule, something no other Arch-Devil had.

If you haven't guessed I love that article, though it's been years since I have read it I might have gotten a few things wrong. It is truely a great article. One of the best I have ever read.

Oh and Grazzt, I'm really looking forward the Tome of Horrors.

 

[Phaedrus]

I'm pretty sure it's issues 75 & 76. It was a 2 parter by Ed Greenwood. And i agree... very good stuff.

 

[Alaric_Prympax]

I'm pretty sure it's issues 75 & 76. It was a 2 parter by Ed Greenwood. And i agree... very good stuff.

I agree that those are extremely good articles and I use those Devils when I can, which I will say is very rare. But the author of The Politics of Hell is someone else and was in an early Dragon issue, somewhere in the pre-50's, for some reason 25 comes to mind but I really don't remember which and my copy of Best of Dragon Vol. 3 is box that would take a few hours to find. Oh, and don't forget Ed's Nine Hell's Revisited article which I think was in one of the 90 issues (91?) of Dragon, another great article.

 

[Theuderic]

The Politics of Hell- by Alexander von Thorn From issue #28, August 1979

 

[chatdemon]

And Lucifer (or Satan if you prefer) is gonna be detailed in the TOme of Horrors. (Sorry couldn't help it.)

Without any 'real world' story behind him, iirc from the dnd3e chat you and Clark gave. Sounds like a cheap publicity stunt to me. If you're going to give us Satan, give us Satan, not some jackass devil with that name slapped on for kewlness factor.

Edit: BTW, for a fairly realistic take on Satan, consult Legions of Hell (Green Ronin). Iblis is, for all intents and purposes, Satan. A fallen Solar who led a rebellion against the gods when he was forced to serve mortals and was cast into the hells for it.