Bow and Ammo Stacking... Flaming?

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: Re: Re: What about Ice

While frost/flaming may be too much when it comes to suspending disbelief...

Very true. But maybe you end up with +2d6 steam damage.

there's nothing wrong with frost/shock.

That's what myself and the other DM thought. But if that's true, then how can I, as a DM, justify the cost of flaming burst to my players? Here's what it looks like:

1) Flaming/Shock weapon deals +2d6 extra damage, possible maximum of +12 damage.
2) Flaming burst weapon deals +1d6 damage on normal hit, maximum of 6, and +1d6 +1d10 damage on a crit, maximum +16 (for a standard x2 crit weapon).

Granted, the flaming weapon has a higher maximum damage but the chances that you will actually crit are much smaller and not really worth the cost of the +2 enhancement when you could just as easily slap on shock/flaming for the same price, knowing you will receive a guaranteed +2d6 damage for every single hit, and call it a day.

Now, if what I argue is true, why bother having burst weapons in the first place (especially if you only allow burst weapons to come into effect on a critical hit according to the weapon's unmodified threat range)? This is what myself and the other DM have been discussing.

 

[Crothian]

Re: Re: Re: What about Ice

Crothian, I've been wondering if you can indeed have a weapon of frost/flaming. I didn't think you could put both enhancements on a weapon. Of course, going strictly by the rules, there is nothing that says you can't. Did Monte say you could? How about the Sage? I've been having an ongoing debate with another DM about this. We've been tossing around the imbalances of being able to place two elemental damage enhancements on one weapon for a while now.

There is nothing I have read or heard that would make me thing you can't. I believe that if these enchantments could not be placed on the same weapon, it would say so. That would be an exception to the rules as they are written.

 

[twjensen]

Bursting weapons

That's what myself and the other DM thought. But if that's true, then how can I, as a DM, justify the cost of flaming burst to my players? Here's what it looks like:

1) Flaming/Shock weapon deals +2d6 extra damage, possible maximum of +12 damage.
2) Flaming burst weapon deals +1d6 damage on normal hit, maximum of 6, and +1d6 +1d10 damage on a crit, maximum +16 (for a standard x2 crit weapon).

Hmmm... You're in house rule land either way, but I'd consider either:

1. No multi-enhancement. The rules don't disallow it, but that doesn't mean the DM has to allow it.

2. Beef up the value of the burst. Maybe it does 3d6 fire and expands the crit range or something.

Either way, I'd probably allow the fire arrows to stack with a bow of shocking or similar combos because enchanted arrows are SO DANG EXPENSIVE!

 

[Crothian]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What about Ice

1) Flaming/Shock weapon deals +2d6 extra damage, possible maximum of +12 damage.
2) Flaming burst weapon deals +1d6 damage on normal hit, maximum of 6, and +1d6 +1d10 damage on a crit, maximum +16 (for a standard x2 crit weapon).

THe burst weapons are better if your crit multiplier is higher. That +3d10 for x4 weapons is very good. Also, for getting over resistance you need to have higher numbers.

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Bursting weapons

Hmmm... You're in house rule land either way...

Explain? What I stated are not house rule options. Those are how those weapons function by the rules.

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What about Ice

THe burst weapons are better if your crit multiplier is higher. That +3d10 for x4 weapons is very good. Also, for getting over resistance you need to have higher numbers.

That's very true, but like I said, your average damage for a flaming/shocking weapons is always going to be higher than a flaming burst weapon, as you don't crit very often, especially so if your weapon is a x4 crit weapon which only crits on a 20, 19-20 if keen, 18-20 if keen w/improved crit feat. Basically, the return on investment for having a flaming/shocking weapon is much higher than a flaming burst weapon. See what I mean?

 

[Valicor]

I don't see why the two flaming would not stack for 2d6. lets not forget that a +5 arrow loaded onto a +5 bow stack giving you a +10 to hit/+10 to damage with that arrow/bow.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I don't see why the two flaming would not stack for 2d6. lets not forget that a +5 arrow loaded onto a +5 bow stack giving you a +10 to hit/+10 to damage with that arrow/bow.

+5 on arrow and bow stacks because The weapons both have that bonus: The +5 bow is enchanted so that it propels the arrow true to it's target, magically adjusting the flight path and giving it more impulse (that's just my interpretation, but should be around the right thing!), so you get +5 attack, +5 damage. +5 Arrows are also enchanted to right themselves when they're let loose, and the magic makes them faster, so they'll also give you +5 attack, +5 damage. When you have a +5 bow and +5 arrows, they work together and you have +10/+10.

A flaming bow, on the other hand, BESTOWS it's flaming ability on the ammunition. And since on weapon (or arrow) can't have the same enchantment twice (no keen keen swords!), you'll end up with only +1d6 fire damage!

 

[The Iron Mark]

Yeah I think I remember the enhancments Caliban came up with. They were really cool, things like Corrosive, Bladestorm, Bladefury and the like. Now if we could get Caliban to repost those...

 

[KChagga]

I would imagine a flaming/ice weapon as having a blue flame that burns, but feels icy cold. Kinda like when you stick your hand in really cold water and it feels hot for a moment only reversed
I can easily see letting elemental properties be stacked on a bow arrow combination. Flaming/flaming would be an extra intense flame. Ice/ice would be extra cold, etc. Just limit it to the elemental properties.