Bow of true arrows - to good to be true

[Berk]

Wahhh!!! Wahhh!!! Wahhh!!!! someone has something better then I do!!! Wahhh!!!! Wahhh!!!! Wahhh!!!!

anyways, sorry about that but people cry all the time about things that they think are unfair. first of all it wouldn't have been published as it is without the proper concideration, and if it went this long without being errated or anything then I would say that it is perfectly balancing as it is.

 

[kreynolds]

LOL That was very amusing...it probably shouldn't have been...but it was.

 

[LokiDR]

Bow of True arrows: Never had a problem with it. It actually seemed a bit week for most of the archer's I've seen, who want more arrows, not a better bonus to hit.

Hunter's Mercy: I would have removed the "auto-hit" portion of the spell, if it were me. Seems a bit much, a better true strike and auto crit threat? Since I did not write it, I would like to say I have never seen a ranger use it. Like I said, most want more arrows fired. I think I would use it, given this conversation, but that hardly makes it too powerful. Lots of the spells in the game are just plain good. Why not let the ranger have one too?

Manyshot: This is from the ELH right? What are the pre-reqs? First, I think the ELH is out of whack with the average D&D game. I would say it is good, too good for low levels. I would definately rule 0 to -2 per arrow shot, but that is just me.

Combos: Yes, you can combin normally just good spells/feats/abilities to make really broken combos. Does this surprise you? Some people love to do this. Does that mean every one needs to be changed? If a loophole is exploited hard core by the rules, I would consider rule 0. But consider this: what is a wizard or sorcerer doing at the same level that your ranger has the "overpowering" combo? If your answer is anything about as good or better, maybe it isn't broken. Frankly, I like combinations that make ranger better, since I think they are too limited as is.

 

[Thanee]

I love it when people with no experience with the spell decide how terrible it is without seeing it used. Where does it state that arcane spells are more powerful than divine. I must have missed that chapter of the phb.

It's not in the PHB, it's in the DMG (altho the guidelines are a little vague, I must admit). Page 95, BTW.

true strike guarenties a hit on everything but a 1 and can be used on all weapons.

hunters mercy auto hits and threats. It's useable with only 1 weapon.

The main difference is, that True Strike is balanced with the fact, that you lose a full attack in order to cast it.

Hunter's Mercy, however, almost guarantees a critical hit (and don't tell me, that an archer would have a hard time to confirm a crit at the highest BAB usually), which deals THREE times the damage of a regular hit with a bow!

Therefore a single attack with Hunter's Mercy is about as good as a full attack action with 3-4 shots, so the action you spend on casting it is not wasted effectively as with True Strike!

How many classes prc or regular get access to the ranger spell list? 1 just the ranger and it balances out an already horrible and useless class.

There are at least 5 that can have access to it. All, if you allow a non-spell-trigger item.

Well, I agree with the ranger getting a rough deal, but that is no argument to sneak a spell into the lists, that is so overpowered as Hunter's Mercy.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Berk]

I must have missed something
all of a sudden true strike is being used as the ultimate spell for comparising other spells

well then in that case magic missile which always hits and does decent amounts of damage is just way to over powered

yep yep, that has to be it

quit cryin people, hunter's mercy isn't too overpowered.

and since when did true strike give a guaranteed hit? I musta missed that one also

 

[Thanee]

I must have missed something

Obviously!

all of a sudden true strike is being used as the ultimate spell for comparising other spells

It is not. If you had noticed, this thread is about True Strike. And the comparison drawn is between two very similar spells: True Strike and Hunter's Mercy, based on the argument, that a Bow of True Strike is not broken, while a Bow of Hunter's Mercy would be, if it were created along the same lines.

and since when did true strike give a guaranteed hit? I musta missed that one also

Me too.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Berk]

quote:all of a sudden true strike is being used as the ultimate spell for comparising other spells

It is not. If you had noticed, this thread is about True Strike. And the comparison drawn is between two very similar spells: True Strike and Hunter's Mercy, based on the argument, that a Bow of True Strike is not broken, while a Bow of Hunter's Mercy would be, if it were created along the same lines.

I understand that you are comparing true strike and hunter's mercy but that's like comparing apples and oranges. Like I said, if hunter's mercy is overpowered then so is magic missile cuz it always hits as long as you can see your target and it does decent damage, almost, and I stress almost, as much as a crit with a bow.

 

[Victim]

quit cryin people, hunter's mercy isn't too overpowered.

Tell that to a deepwood sniper.

Even without DS critical multiplier increases, Hunter's Mercy essentially forces an automatic hit at a minimum, and causes an effective 2 extra hits if the roll is successful. Given the attack and damage mods of master archers, it's likely that the spell will cause 3d8 plus a substancial amount.

In other words, it makes magic missile look bad in terms of damage. Caster level doesn't matter so it's cheap to put on magic items like wands or scrolls. It's an indirect attack, so SR doesn't affect it.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

hunters mercy auto hits and threats. It's useable with only 1 weapon. How many classes prc or regular get access to the ranger spell list? 1 just the ranger and it balances out an already horrible and useless class.

Hunter's Mercy makes you hit the next target, no matter what it is. It also gives you a fairly good chance to deal out critical damage, which is three times the usual damage (I won't start to mention deepwood snipers here, no I won't. I won't start to take the peerless archer's powershot ability into account here, either).

True Strike gives you a fairly good chance to hit the next target.

See that True Strike doesn't garantee a hit: there are still 5% chance at least, and more if the target has high AC, like that Dragon you should not hit even with true strike.

But with Hunter's Mercy you're garanteed to hit a god. Nothing short of a major artifact should enable you to such feats. Much less a 1st-level spell.

My proposal: Hunter's mercy makes you next attack an automatic threat: Make your attack roll normally. If it hits, roll again to confirm a critical hit. That makes it OK.

[Edit]
The Ranger is not that underpowered.
--------------------------------------------------
Now, I will start to mention deepwood snipers and peerless archers here! (Smackdown following!)

The Character we will speak about is Soveliss, Wood Elven Ranger 5/Wizard1/Deepwood Sniper 7/Peerless Archer 3. Note his shiny boots of speed, they'll be important later.
His Stats (32 Point Buy) Str 18 Dex 20 Con10 Int12 Wis12 Cha6. His feats: Far Shot, Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus (Composite Longbow), Precise Shot, Quick Draw, Rapid Shot.
Beyond his Boots of Speed, he owns a +5 Flaming Burst Mighty Composite Longbow (+4 Str Bonus) And a bunch of +5 Arrows.

His Attacks (within 30 ft of the Enemy): +32/+27/+22 1d8+15 +1d6 Fire (Crit 19-20/x5 +3d10 Fire Damage*)
* As there are no x5 weapons usually , I just assume that Flaming Burst stays at +3d10, instead of becoming 4d10.

Now, if he used Power Shot for full effect, he could get +16/+11/+6 1d8+31 +1d6 Fire.

His Ranger Spells Prepared: Hunter's Mercy
His Wizard Spells Prepared: True Strike

Now, whenever he has a little time (or rather once per day), he uses his boots of speed in the first round. In the second, he casts Hunter's Mercy and True Strike. In the third he draws his bow, takes one of his premium arrows, and shoots it at the enemy.

He now hits it whatever it is, Dealing 1d8 + 31 + 1d6 fire, for an average of 39 (between 33 and 45).

And with the +36 to confirm a thread, he has the max 95% chance to crit everything with AC 38 or less, and a reasonable chance of 50% to crit something with AC 46 (That's any non-epic Dragon without buff spells or weak buff spells, A young Force Dragon, most other Monsters from MM1 and MM2, and quite a few epic bastards)

This crit will deal 5d8 + 155 + 3d10 Fire, for an average of 194 Points ( Between 163 and 225).

This will surely slay quite a few characters out there. (If he gets my Bladesinger before he can buff himself up, he'll almost certainly down him even with his minimum Damage, and even if he has them up, he probably won't know his danger and won't use expertise or the defending quality of his sword, and his AC will be low enough to give the Archer a 75% or so chance to hit)

 

[Thanee]

I understand that you are comparing true strike and hunter's mercy but that's like comparing apples and oranges. Like I said, if hunter's mercy is overpowered then so is magic missile cuz it always hits as long as you can see your target and it does decent damage, almost, and I stress almost, as much as a crit with a bow.

Just to get this right, you really want to tell me, that True Strike and Hunter's Mercy are complete different things, but it's cool to compare Hunter's Mercy with Magic Missile, and furthermore, that Magic Missile comes out on top in this comparison!

Riiiight!

Bye
Thanee