D&D 5E Brainstorm Sorcerer upgrades. (+)

[Shadowedeyes]

A while back I reworked the core book subclasses. One of things I gave them was additional bonus spells, like the Tasha ones. Here are the lists for a jumping off point for more, and probably better ideas.

Draconic Spells
1st Level Draconic Bloodline Feature
You learn additional spells when you reach certain levels in this class, as shown on the Draconic Spells table. Each of these spells count as a sorcerer spell for you, but doesn’t count against the number of sorcerer spells known.

When you gain a sorcerer level, you can replace one spell you gained from this feature with another spell of the same level. The new spell must be an evocation or enchantment spell from the sorcerer, warlock or wizard list.

1st-Command, Chromatic Orb
3rd-Dragon’s Breath, Alter Self
5th-Fly, Fear
7th-Elemental Bane, Leomund’s Secret Chest
9th-Summon Draconic Spirit, Geas

Wild Magic Spells
1st Level Wild Magic Feature
You learn additional spells when you reach certain levels in this class, as shown on the Wild Magic Spells table. Each of these spells count as a sorcerer spell for you, but doesn’t count against the number of sorcerer spells known.

When you gain a sorcerer level, you can replace one spell you gained from this feature with another spell of the same level. The new spell must be a transmutation or conjuration spell from the sorcerer, warlock or wizard list.

1st-Chaos Bolt, Tasha’s Hideous Laughter
3rd-Enlarge/Reduce, Crown of Madness
5th-Blink, Summon Fey
7th-Polymorph, Freedom of Movement
9th-Mislead, Reincarnate

 

[Chaosmancer]

A while back I reworked the core book subclasses. One of things I gave them was additional bonus spells, like the Tasha ones. Here are the lists for a jumping off point for more, and probably better ideas.

Draconic Spells
1st Level Draconic Bloodline Feature
You learn additional spells when you reach certain levels in this class, as shown on the Draconic Spells table. Each of these spells count as a sorcerer spell for you, but doesn’t count against the number of sorcerer spells known.

When you gain a sorcerer level, you can replace one spell you gained from this feature with another spell of the same level. The new spell must be an evocation or enchantment spell from the sorcerer, warlock or wizard list.

1st-Command, Chromatic Orb
3rd-Dragon’s Breath, Alter Self
5th-Fly, Fear
7th-Elemental Bane, Leomund’s Secret Chest
9th-Summon Draconic Spirit, Geas

Wild Magic Spells
1st Level Wild Magic Feature
You learn additional spells when you reach certain levels in this class, as shown on the Wild Magic Spells table. Each of these spells count as a sorcerer spell for you, but doesn’t count against the number of sorcerer spells known.

When you gain a sorcerer level, you can replace one spell you gained from this feature with another spell of the same level. The new spell must be a transmutation or conjuration spell from the sorcerer, warlock or wizard list.

1st-Chaos Bolt, Tasha’s Hideous Laughter
3rd-Enlarge/Reduce, Crown of Madness
5th-Blink, Summon Fey
7th-Polymorph, Freedom of Movement
9th-Mislead, Reincarnate

I did something similar for all the subclasses

Spoiler: Dragon Sorcerer

Sorcerous Dragon Spells

1st: Absorb Elements (includes poison damage),Identify
3rd Dragon's Breath, Alter Self
5th Fear, Fly
7th Elemental Bane, Leonmund's Secret Chest
9th Creation, Dominate Person

Finally, any spell that deals your Ancestry damage type is considered on the Sorcerer spell list for you.

Spoiler: Shadow Sorcerer

Sorcerous Shadow Spells

1st: False Life, Arms of Hadar
3rd: Darkness, Blindness/Deafness
5th Summon Shadowspawn, Vampiric Touch
7th Evard's Black Tentacles, Shadow of Moil
9th Cloudkill, Antilife Shell

Spoiler: Storm Sorcerer

Sorcerous Storm Spells

1st: Fog Cloud, Thunderwave
3rd: Gust of Wind, Blur
5th: Call Lightning, Sleet Storm
7th: Conjure Minor Elementals (1), Ice Storm
9th Conjure Elemental (2), Scrying

1 - Unless you gain this spell from another source, you can summon only smoke mephits, steam mephits, ice mephits, or dust mephits with it.
2 - Unless you gain this spell from another source, you can summon only Air or Water elementals with it.

Additionally, all spells that deal thunder or lightning damage are considered sorcerer spells for you

Spoiler: Divine Soul

Sorcerous Divine Spells

1st: Cure Wounds, Protection from Evil andGood
3rd: Aid, Prayer of Healing
5th: Mass Healing Word, Revivify
7th: Banishment, Death Ward
9th: Holy Weapon, Mass Cure Wounds

Alternatively, you may select a Domain spell list, instead of this list and use that.

Spoiler: Wilds Sorcerer

Sorcerous Wild Spells

1st: Chaos Bolt, Silent Image
3rd: Enhance Ability, Mirror Image
5th: Nondetection, Blink
7th: Polymorph, Confusion
9th: Seeming, Modify Memory

Spoiler: Abberrant Sorcerer

Sorcerous Aberrant Spells

1st: Arms of Hadar, Dissonant Whispers. MindSliver
3rd: Calm Emotions, Detect Thoughts
5th: Hunger of Hadar, Sending
7th: Summon Aberration, Evard’s Black Tentacles
9th: Telekinesis, Rary's Telepathic Bond

Spoiler: Clockwork Sorcerer

Sorcerous Clockwork Spells

1st: Alarm, Protection from Evil and Good
3rd: Aid, Lesser Restoration
5th: Dispel Magic, Protection from Energy
7th: Freedom of Movement, Summon Construct
9th: Greater Restoration, Wall of Force

 

[MechaTarrasque]

So many options.....

Probably the most interesting one would be to lean into the magic tables for the Wild Magic Sorcerer. Basically, when you are a sorcerer and you cast your highest-level spell, stuff happens:
if you are a dragon sorcerer, dragon stuff happens;
if you are a wild magic sorcerer, weird stuff happens;
if you are an aberrant soul sorcerer, tentacle stuff happens;
if you are a shadow soul sorcerer, shadow stuff happens;
if you are a divine soul sorcerer, either celestial stuff happens or fiend stuff happens;
if you are a storm sorcerer, storm stuff happens; etc.

The subclasses practically write themselves. I am not sure what should be on all the tables, but I am guessing if you roll a 1, it will be bad, and if you roll a 20, you will probably be the hero of the party that day. I could see the tables (probably 20 options for everyone but the wild magic) changing every couple of levels.

This lets sorcerers do stuff with magic that no one else can, adds some drama, and if you made inspiration the only way to adjust your score on the magic table, then that makes things pretty interesting.

It also gives sorcerers a rationale in the game world--it is not hard to imagine that someone wants the world to have more storms or shadows or tentacles in it. The powers behind the sorcerers aren't interested in souls (at least at this junction), they want to Abyss-form or Shadowfell-form (or maybe even Mt. Celestia-form) your world. Maybe an individual sorcerer won't change the world, but give it a couple of generations (and enough sorcerers), who knows what will happen?

 

[Minigiant]

Sorcerer​

Spellcasting Score: Charisma
Resources: Spell slots and Sorcery Points
Class Features: Font of Magic, Metamagic Sorcerous Talents
Spell list: Base Sorcerer spell list plus 2 Spheres of magic. One chosen at level 1. One given by subclass
Subclasses:

• Arcane Nobility (can learn wizard spells, gets ritual book)
• Cosmic Magic (Gains spells based of current cosmic/zodiac month, can shift month temporarily)
• Favored Soul (can learn cleric spells, can us Sorcery points to heal/harm)
• Greenthumb (can learn druid spells, thumbs are actually green)
• Lunar Sorcery
• Metamagic Prodigy (Bonus Metamagic)
• Oncedead (can spell Sorcery Points to return from death, death touch, command undead)
• Seventh Son (can spend sorcery points to add +7. Rolls of 7 are turned to 14)
• Spell Savant (Bonus spells known)
• Wild Magic

Incarnate​

Spellcasting Score: Constitution
Resources: Willpower
Class Features: Will, Power Incarnate AKA Monster Powers
Spell list: Limited
Subclasses:

• Abberant Mind
• Clockwork Soul
• Divine Ancestry
• Draconic Bloodline
• Fiendish Lineage
• Feykin
• Living Storm
• Shadow Magic

 

[MoonSong]

Sorcerer​

Spellcasting Score: Charisma
Resources: Spell slots and Sorcery Points
Class Features: Font of Magic, Metamagic Sorcerous Talents
Spell list: Base Sorcerer spell list plus 2 Spheres of magic. One chosen at level 1. One given by subclass
Subclasses:

• Arcane Nobility (can learn wizard spells, gets ritual book)
• Cosmic Magic (Gains spells based of current cosmic/zodiac month, can shift month temporarily)
• Favored Soul (can learn cleric spells, can us Sorcery points to heal/harm)
• Greenthumb (can learn druid spells, thumbs are actually green)
• Lunar Sorcery
• Metamagic Prodigy (Bonus Metamagic)
• Oncedead (can spell Sorcery Points to return from death, death touch, command undead)
• Seventh Son (can spend sorcery points to add +7. Rolls of 7 are turned to 14)
• Spell Savant (Bonus spells known)
• Wild Magic

Incarnate​

Spellcasting Score: Constitution
Resources: Willpower
Class Features: Will, Power Incarnate AKA Monster Powers
Spell list: Limited
Subclasses:

• Abberant Mind
• Clockwork Soul
• Divine Ancestry
• Draconic Bloodline
• Fiendish Lineage
• Feykin
• Living Storm
• Shadow Magic

I was thinking of Scion as a name for the latter.

 

[Yaarel]

Ok, the other threads are full of off-topic and sorcerer hate. So, let's open a thread to brainstorm ideas for sorcerer. This thread is a (+) thread, so no calls for erasure or merger please, and no derailing with whataboutism.

Some venues of discussion I've gathered from the previous threads:

• What are the mechanics you'd think could improve the sorcerer flavor?
• Spell points, spell slots or "free form"?
• The third level subclass problem.(Aka, how important the source should be?)
• Does the class merit a split?
• Should it be the "turn into a monster" class?
• Should the class remain Cha based, or should it be moved to Con?
• Can the spell list be made more different from the wizard?
• Do we need WotC to do it?

Of course, it would be better if we start going into specifics, not just broad statements.

Fixing the Wizard is part of fixing the Sorcerer.

First reorganize the spell schools thematically, so each school is a clear salient flavor.

• Abjuration (healing)
• Conjuration (planar magic, multiverse, summoning)
• Divination (spacetime, prescience, teleportation)
• Dunomancy (force, fly)
• Enchantment (mind magic)
• Evocation (elemental magic) − pick two elements from Earth, Water, Air, Fire, and Primordial (Elemental Chaos)
• Illusion (quasi-real objects)
• Necromancy (darkside)
• Transmutation (shapeshifting, animal, plant)

Every caster gets the Universal school (Detect Magic, Dispel Magic, etcetera, also Wish)


The base class of the Wizard only needs the spells from three spell schools, the ones that best characterize the traditional Wizard flavor:
• Dunomancy (force): Mage Hand, Magic Missile, Shield, Mage Armor, Fly, etcetera.
• Evocation (elemental magic): Fireball, etcetera.
• Divination (spacetime, prescience, teleportation)

Wizard subclasses can add an other spell school, such as Illusion or Transmutation, even a generalist scholar.


Then, decide on which schools best characterize the Sorcerer base class concept.

Currently, the Sorcerer flavor schools are mostly:
• Evocation (elemental magic) − pick two elements from Earth, Water, Air, Fire, and Primordial (Elemental Chaos)
• Illusion (quasi-real objects)
• Enchantment (mind magic)

But should these be the main Sorcerer flavor?

Maybe the Sorcerer should mainly focus on:
• Evocation (energy and affinity)
• Conjuration (planar magic, multiverse, summoning)
• Enchantment (mind magic)

Then the Sorcerer subclasses can add an other spell school:
• Draconic: maybe Martial features to become more gish
• Wild: all five of the Evocation elements (not just two)
• Clockwork: Abjuration (healing)
• Aberrant: Necromancy (including Aberration spells)

 

[Li Shenron]

Ok, the other threads are full of off-topic and sorcerer hate. So, let's open a thread to brainstorm ideas for sorcerer. This thread is a (+) thread, so no calls for erasure or merger please, and no derailing with whataboutism.

Some venues of discussion I've gathered from the previous threads:

• What are the mechanics you'd think could improve the sorcerer flavor?
• Spell points, spell slots or "free form"?
• The third level subclass problem.(Aka, how important the source should be?)
• Does the class merit a split?
• Should it be the "turn into a monster" class?
• Should the class remain Cha based, or should it be moved to Con?
• Can the spell list be made more different from the wizard?
• Do we need WotC to do it?

Of course, it would be better if we start going into specifics, not just broad statements.

I am not keen on moving away from the 2014 version of 5e, so I wouldn't want any major changes to any class, and I would prefer changes to be in the form of additional options (subclasses, feats, spells).

That said, I only think the Sorcerer suffers from two things: (1) too few known spells for a full spellcasting class, (2) not enough differentiations from the Wizard or other casters.

These are things that could have been solved long ago simply by leveraging subclass design, and have each subclass grant bonus known spells (similar to the Cleric's domains) and strong unique abilities, but WotC stubbornly refused to do it in an attempt to defend their original PHB subclasses, which they kept saying the would become less attractive, so they ended up keeping the whole Sorcerer class less attractive as a result. And no, I don't think WotC will get it right in the 2024 version, I think a lot of fans will praise whatever WotC does, and WotC will use the trick of buffing every character a bit, but I also think the Sorcerer will still end up being an underdeveloped class compared to others.

If wanting to touch the base class mechanics, and looking at more dramatic changes, at that point instead of worrying too much about the number of known spells, I would want to seriously build around the idea that a Sorcerer could be a great improviser and manipulator of magic. The seed of this idea already exists in the Sorcerer not having to memorize spell (which in practice is a moot point in 5e since she often knows less spell than a Wizard of the same level can memorize, but was the original concept of the 3e Sorcerer) and in metamagic.

There's a lot of people insisting that Wizards (and maybe others) should be granted metamagic as well, rendering the Sorcerer even less unique and attractive as a character choice. This is only a by-product of the culture of "Wizards are the most awesome thing and should be able to do everything" (perhaps except healing, because tradition). I don't like these very conservative ideas, and I would actually go the opposite direction and frame the Wizard as a spellcaster who cannot deviate from their formulas or change almost anything about the spells they cast. OK to keep all the variables of spellcasting that are already available to every caster (upscaling spells to higher levels for example), but no more flexibility than that, as if a Wizard learns precise formulas but is not allowed to improvise.

If the Wizard class, which is the main contender of the Sorcerer, is kept in check like that, then the Sorcerer could be made the ultimate master of spells flexibility: she knows few, but can change a lot more on the fly. More metamagic effects (either from the core class, from subclasses, or from a Sorcerer-only feat) is an easy addition. Removing the double cost for switching between spell slots and metamagic is also an easy fix. A more dramatic change could be to replace known spells with known spells types, so that for example a Sorcerer at any given level knows a fixed number of spell types or themes ("lightning spells", "speed spells", "undead animation spells") and can cast all spells of that type of available level. This would be a very big design effort because it would have to be done in conjunction with a categorization of existing spells and it would work well only if the whole list of spells in the game is balanced in terms of different spell types, which in general is really not (e.g. there are a lot more fire spells than any other kind).

 

[Horwath]

1st. spell points, not spell slots!

2nd. Metamagic pool added to spell point pool

3rd. Certain amount of spellpoints returned on short rest or up to certain amount. I.E. up to 1/3rd of max amount-

4th. Subclass from 1st level.
It does not need to be a lot of mechanics, flavor and bonus spells known(cantrips+1st level spells), and more hefty features can be left for 3rd level to prevent massive front loading of class.

5th. Havel all new features come online at levels 10 or 11 max.
Later can be improvements or more usage of said features.


also, not all features need to be spells.

I.E. draconic sorcerer and Breath weapons. Similar to Smite

1st level feature. At-will.
As an action you can breathe out energy cone(breath) at the range of 10ft.
Damage 2d6 of your chosen dragon type. Save for half.

You can spend a spell slot in addition to using your breath weapon, add +2d6 damage per spell slot level and range of cone increases by 5ft per spell slot level spent.

 

[tetrasodium]

I might have overlooked it, but I'm surprised that it doesn't seem to have come up given the number of times it's been suggested that sorcerer be con based or that they gain notable monster abilities and such that would presumably contribute significantly to the class's power budget. There is no reason that sorcerer with those kinds of things still needs so much of the wizard spell list or the same spell level/slot progression as a wizard. A fractional con based d4 hit diel caster with a strictly limited∆ spell list who gains a significant chunk of its power from it's monstrous adaptations makes a lot more sense than piling features on top of a wizard chassis.

∆ basically all of the A B & S tier spells from the wizard list is not "limited"

 

[Minigiant]

I might have overlooked it, but I'm surprised that it doesn't seem to have come up given the number of times it's been suggested that sorcerer be con based or that they gain notable monster abilities and such that would presumably contribute significantly to the class's power budget. There is no reason that sorcerer with those kinds of things still needs so much of the wizard spell list or the same spell level/slot progression as a wizard. A fractional con based d4 hit diel caster with a strictly limited∆ spell list who gains a significant chunk of its power from it's monstrous adaptations makes a lot more sense than piling features on top of a wizard chassis.

∆ basically all of the A B & S tier spells from the wizard list is not "limited"

The design behind my theory crafted Incarnate/Scion class is that you Monster Powers use the same space as Spells Known.

So a fire draconic Scion will have 6 at level 5 before freebees.

Spells
Detect Magic
Burning Hands
Misty Step
Fireball

Powers
Crow's Feet
Dragon Scales (free, fire only)
Giant's Strength (free, fire only)
Demon Horn