Brainstorming an Alt-Dimension/Quasi-Star Trek setting

[Dannyalcatraz]

I was thinking about my kitchen sink work in progress:

Brainstorming a “Kitchen Sink“ Sci-Fi campaign

...without going full-on RIFTS. I was struck by the campaign design bug while participating in the Star Wars “Mind share” thread. I don’t want to play in or run any of the major Sci-Fi settings out there, but participating in something that echoes them could be fun. So, for instance, while I...

www.enworld.org

...and an idea that absolutely didn’t fit, but I thought was worth exploring: a Star Trek type setting in which Rome either never fell, or a Roman-style civilization rose back to prominence and dominance. As humanity spread to the stars, the Republic (Empire? Something else?) definitely has a more militaristic and expansionist doctrine than the Federation. Very...nostri maris et stellas. (”Our sea of stars”.)

Obviously, that means there wouldn’t be Romanesque Romulans, but maybe something a bit more pseudo-Carthaginian?

While I want to draw inspiration from all Trek eras- and maybe a couple of lifts from The Orville- visually, I want to stick closer to the original show, in part because the uniform had those nice, leafy trim. But command wouldn’t be gold, it would be royal purple (Jovians). SecurityMilitary would remain red (Ares). Communications/Commerce/Diplomacy would be silver (Mercury). Medical would be gold (Apollo). Science would be blue (Minerva).

 

[MarkB]

It feels rather similar to the existing Mirror Universe, to the extent that it'd have to work hard in order to be distinct from both that and the Romulan Star Empire. Plus, TOS did "modern 20th-century Rome planet" at least once.

 

[ART!]

I dig this idea.

To steer away from ST's Mirror Universe, just keep Space-Rome from being EVIL - and steer away from goatees!

To stay away from Romulan stuff, just go full-bore Roman - keep all those Latin terms for ships and fleets, and use Latin root-words for anything you have to make up. Occasionally borrow or Latin-ize terms from the more impressive conquered peoples.

You could argue that a Rome that survives as something recognizably Roman might have developed space flight centuries earlier than we did IRL.

Also, you will need space-"barbarians", which is pretty much Klingons.

 

[Umbran]

I have come to have an issue with such things.

We think of this as "Rome never fell", but we also add on, "Rome did not undergo much cultural change for thousands of years", and that's almost less plausible than transporters, to me.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

This isn’t to be an actual Alt-Trek, but sort of an homage. Goatees not requried. No actual Romulans, Klingons, etc.

As for the roots, I’m not saying Rome didn’t change- after all, Rome itself did over its actual 1000 year run. And they did lift certain things from the Greeks that preceeded them. Not to mention the changed but still influential place it has in the world today.

So, this “unfallen“ Rome/or Romanesque successor won’t necessarily be bread & circuses, gladiators and decadence the way it’s typically depicted in fiction. Instead, there will be cultural and aesthetic echoes in the aesthetics of official government products* and ranking practices of the institutions...in no small part for the same reasons as the Romans mimicked the Greeks: creating a sense of continuity and congruity.

There would still be cultural remanants as well, though- again, either as continuations or as artificially created throwbacks to “better times”. That would include the current imperialistic & expansionistic phase of space travel.

* amusingly, I just had this vision of the original classic Trek Enterprise with warp nacelles styled to resemble Corinthian columns...

 

[Richards]

Well, there was that episode of the original Star Trek series ("Who Mourns for Adonis?") where they ran into Apollo. Maybe in your alternate universe, the Greek/Roman "gods" who "visited" Earth centuries ago never found the need to leave and have shepherded the Roman Empire over the centuries into a spacefaring society. That would put a different spin on things: a Federation with a pantheon of gods behind them, able and willing to interfere in galactic relations to ensure they continue to be worshiped. (Why limit themselves to just being worshiped by humans when there are other races out there as well?)

Johnathan

 

[Tonguez]

There is an story arc of the original (British) Tomorrow People series in which a steam engine is introduced to ancient Rome, thus causing a new timeline in which Rome conquers the world (Planet Rome), reaches the Moon by the 4th century and by the 20th century they are a starfaring empire who have enslaved a number of alien planets/races.

Planet Rome is offered membership of the Galactic Federation but refuse as they have already conquered half the galaxy and beleive that the Federation will soon succumb to the Glory of the Empire - Unfortunately the meddling Tomorrow kids go back to 1st Century Rome and restore the original timeline

 

[Umbran]

There would still be cultural remanants as well, though- again, either as continuations or as artificially created throwbacks to “better times”. That would include the current imperialistic & expansionistic phase of space travel.

My point goes like this.

Historically speaking, the USA is a direct extension through time of British culture. Compare the US today with Britain of 1020 AD. If you are a historian who studies such things, you can see the resemblance - like in the impact British common law has on our legal system. But if you just describe the world of 1020, and that of 2020... you don't see a lot of recognizable trappings spelled out for you. Heck, the English language of 1020 is nigh incomprehensible to a speaker of 2020, much less any other cultural aspect.

So, make the root even farther back... what recognizable elements are going to remain to say, "This is derived from Rome"?

I'm not saying there wouldn't be any. But that it is a thing to think about.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

My point goes like this.

Historically speaking, the USA is a direct extension through time of British culture. Compare the US today with Britain of 1020 AD. If you are a historian who studies such things, you can see the resemblance - like in the impact British common law has on our legal system. But if you just describe the world of 1020, and that of 2020... you don't see a lot of recognizable trappings spelled out for you. Heck, the English language of 1020 is nigh incomprehensible to a speaker of 2020, much less any other cultural aspect.

So, make the root even farther back... what recognizable elements are going to remain to say, "This is derived from Rome"?

I'm not saying there wouldn't be any. But that it is a thing to think about.

Ditto!

Take laws, for example. From my legal background, I can trace the foundations of certain laws back hundreds of years before the existence of our country. And some of the ideas we consider progressive and “modern” were practiced by societies some might call primitive. The society in Starship Troopers had some very old elements, including the military as a path to citizenship. We have that to an extent- military service eliminates or reduces certain requirements- but that practice dates back to Rome at the very least. It was part of their calculus- those on the frontier who enjoyed the perks of Roman citizenship would be more dependably acting in Rome’s favor.

A Romanesque civilization- whether continuous, interrupted, or emulated- might well still consider the Twelve Tables the way we regard the US Constitution. It could also be the Twelve Hundred Tables by the time of this setting. (And the laws of the Twelve Tables themselves were not entirely static, either.)

And yet, you’ve seen how various rights have evolved in this country, despite/because of changes in technology, philosophies, demographics and so forth.

I mean, if Roman numerals are still being used by these guys, I’d imagine it would be m like WE use them- decoratively. Imagine the horror of coding!

 

[Sepulchrave II]

Regardless of their actual cultural and temporal distance from ancient Rome, a neo-Roman space empire might well emphasize the trappings of tradition, and self-consciously emulate certain aspects of an idealized Roman past. This tendency is pretty common in all cultures; conservatism coupled with some kind of fundamentalism - by fundamentalism I really mean a movement which seeks to reconnect with a (fictive) past in which certain key virtues were understood as better observed.

The Roman civilization lasted from - say - the 5th century BCE until 1453, and it changed enormously during that time. But the people in Constantinople at the end self-identified as Roman; they had an idea of continuity, regardless of the truth of continuity. The same would be true of any future Roman space empire; after all, nobody really inherits culture with any special claim. It's all made up. Propaganda. All history is redacted.