Brainstorming on Spell LEVEL fixes

[Dannyalcatraz]

What if, instead of metamagic being a feat, it was always done in the fly as part of a Spellcraft check, DC determined by the LA of the former feat?

Then, instead of there being a host of metamagic feats, there was only one- giving a bonus to the check? (Given other feats that boost skills, you could only take this one once...possibly with a prereq.)

 

[Greg K]

What if, instead of metamagic being a feat, it was always done in the fly as part of a Spellcraft check, DC determined by the LA of the former feat?

Then, instead of there being a host of metamagic feats, there was only one- giving a bonus to the check? (Given other feats that boost skills, you could only take this one once...possibly with a prereq.)

I have to check, but I seem to recall that Swashbuckling Adventures used spellcraft checks for metamagic.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Just scanned BoXM...he did make a 20 level progression, but it does have some gaps- like no Sorcs or any of the other spontaneous casters. In addition, some PHB spells are simply not in the book at all, like Magic Missile.

IOW, he did some heavy lifting, but there's still work to do.

 

[udalrich]

What if, instead of metamagic being a feat, it was always done in the fly as part of a Spellcraft check, DC determined by the LA of the former feat?

There are a couple of potential problems that I see with this.

One problem with this is that wizards (and other int-based casters) are suddenly much better at metamagic. By high level, a wizard is likely to have at least a 28 int (and higher is not difficult). That is +9 to Spellcraft, while a sorcerer or cleric is likely to only have +0 or +1.

You also have to worry about items and feats that give a bonus to Spellcraft. Do you set the DC to quicken a 5th level spell assuming the caster has an int of 12 and max ranks in spellcraft, or an int of 30, max ranks, spell focus (+3), magical aptitude (+2) and a +10 item (10k gp)? That is a difference of 24 in the skill modifiers, so it's possible that one character succeeds on a 1 and the other fails on a 20.

Then, instead of there being a host of metamagic feats, there was only one- giving a bonus to the check? (Given other feats that boost skills, you could only take this one once...possibly with a prereq.)

It could make more sense to base it on a check like the Pathfinder concentration check: 1d20 + caster level + casting stat modifier. This puts clerics, wizards and sorcerers on a level field (since they use Wisdom, Intelligence and Charisma, respectively, for the check). Since it is not a skill, many of the feats and items are not relevant, so the modifier will be similar for most characters. A single feat giving +2 to +4 is probably reasonable.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

One problem with this is that wizards (and other int-based casters) are suddenly much better at metamagic. By high level, a wizard is likely to have at least a 28 int (and higher is not difficult). That is +9 to Spellcraft, while a sorcerer or cleric is likely to only have +0 or +1.

Good point. My response would be to make Spellcraft a skill that gets its stat modifier from the PC's casting stat...and make sure it's a class skill for all casters.

You also have to worry about items and feats that give a bonus to Spellcraft. Do you set the DC to quicken a 5th level spell assuming the caster has an int of 12 and max ranks in spellcraft, or an int of 30, max ranks, spell focus (+3), magical aptitude (+2) and a +10 item (10k gp)? That is a difference of 24 in the skill modifiers, so it's possible that one character succeeds on a 1 and the other fails on a 20.

I'd probably peg the assumption at maxed ranks and a 22Int. As for the rest? I don't really know. That's burning a couple of feats to improve spellcasting flexibility (and a couple of other things) plus item bonuses to an amount I've never seen in play. I might include accounting for a +1 item bonus per 2 levels in the setting of DCs...

Or maybe the higher the level the spell, the harder it is to shape metamagically. So the DC would include a spell level modifier. The raw power being shaped is resistant to taking on new forms...just like it's easier to control & redirect a flow from a kitchen's faucet than it is to control a firehose going full blast.