Bring back the exposed boobs on the Monsters!

[enrious]

look I can't help people with their psychological problems.

So people who'd prefer that WotC be inclusive with their artwork as a method of not driving away potential players have psychological problems? The people who would be offended by such artwork have psychological problems?

Dude, it's 2012. Get out of the basement and feel the warm sunshine of social progress.

 

[Jawsh]

I am a woman and I have been playing since the old days and I have not been brain washed but put me down for keeping the nudity to a minimum.

I can agree with that. D&D monster books are not porno mags. That said, how about some nudity, when it's appropriate. And how about not shying away from showing any amount of nipple (male or female), or crotchal region (again, male or female, doesn't matter to me).

If there are 100 monsters in the book, 5 should feature some kind of nudity. 3 should be female, and 2 should be male.

I don't have an issue with say a succubus showing a little flesh or the after mentioned harpy. But to much just becomes gratuitous and makes me wonder if they are designing a game for adolescent males who get over excited over a naked boob.

Having been an adolescent male, that's definitely part of my experience of the game. D&D was part of coming of age for me; it's not Playboy, thank Pelor, but it's part of what it means to grow up.

But is it really the case that girls burst into flames when they see another girl's breasts?

Oh please naked boobs are still unacceptable to a lot of people look at the outrage some people have seeing a mom nurse her baby in public which is what the breast was designed for.

Those people need to join the rest of us in the 21st century. D&D books need to lead the charge. Shout it from the rooftops: Nudity is not evil!

Personally I and my female friend wish they would take nudity out of a lot of movies. I don't mind tasteful scenes or scenes where it makes sense for nudity but so much just feels like it was put in to titillate boys.

As a boy, I resent that. You shouldn't be advocating for the removal of stuff I like. You should be advocating the inclusion of stuff you like. Your problem might be a lack of plot or emotional development, so champion that stuff, please.

And the feminist in me always wonder why is it always the woman who has to be naked why not the man.

I don't have an answer, but I'm all for trying to include more male nudity. I consider myself a feminist too, and my solution is: get everybody naked and have a good time. That way we're all equal.

 

[Sylrae]

Now Now.

Apparently the social progress of the 60s where women became free to (after fighting for it - bra burnings and such) not wear tops has been beaten back by more social progress to say they have to again.

And in the interest of this return to victorian sensibilities, I'm going to make an equally big stink any time I see a male butt or male nipples.


Cause apparently 2012 is more repressed than the second half of the last century.

And I'm not complaining out of being offended by the male form, but out of being offended by gender inequalities.

D&D5e: Everyone is wearing formless christian monk robes and heavy hoods.

 

[Elf Witch]

I'm not sure what you're talking about there. Movies are full of shirtless men and man-butt. The only part of a man that's not shown in (non-pornographic) films regularly, is the part thats not shown in (non-pornographic) films on women.

As for whether they bring back naked boob in D&D, I'm mostly indifferent, except where it makes me think "If you can't show women without shirts, then you shouldn't be showing men without shirts either."

You do realize that in our society woman being topless is considered something sexual which is why so many people have issues about breast feeding in public where as men being topless is not considered sexual in some states a woman topless can you arrested for indecent exposure not the same thing for a man.

And movies are far more willing to show woman with full frontal nudity but it is far more rare for men to be shown that way.

 

[Sylrae]

You do realize that in our society woman being topless is considered something sexual which is why so many people have issues about breast feeding in public where as men being topless is not considered sexual.

That varies by the person, some are rational enough to think in context, just like Michelangelo's David isn't meant as being sexual.

But yes, there are many who have that sort of slanted thinking.

But hopefully they calling for equality in one situation and fighting against it in another.

In some states a woman topless can you arrested for indecent exposure not the same thing for a man.

I did not realize that was still the case. I thought that was over, like 30 years ago. Sometimes I forget how big the differences can be between states.

And movies are far more willing to show woman with full frontal nudity but it is far more rare for men to be shown that way.

I can only think of a limited number of examples of either one. They're both pretty rare, and If you're just looking at topless and pictures of ass, they seem to both be represented, even more male nudity than female.

Here's what I've got for full frontal (off the top of my head)

Eurotrip: Hundreds of naked men on a beach.
Watchmen: Blue Penis.
Secretary: Brief Naked Scene at the end. Kindof a weird and controversial movie the whole way through though. And thats the only example I can think of of full frontal nudity.

So yes it happens, but it's not that common in either case.

 

[enrious]

Now Now.

Apparently the social progress of the 60s where women became free to (after fighting for it - bra burnings and such) not wear tops has been beaten back by more social progress to say they have to again.

And in the interest of this return to victorian sensibilities, I'm going to make an equally big stink any time I see a male butt or male nipples.


Cause apparently 2012 is more repressed than the second half of the last century.

And I'm not complaining out of being offended by the male form, but out of being offended by gender inequalities.

D&D5e: Everyone is wearing formless christian monk robes and heavy hoods.

Return to?

Clearly you weren't around for the second half of the last century.

 

[foolish_mortals]

guys, you've got to check out "Fetish" by Victoria Steele(I think that's the name). I read it a couple of years ago and it shows how weird/different peoples sex thing is. I couldn't believe that people could... brrrrp.... eeeeee.... and then the guy... errr.... bleeep... . Even the victorian people liked to ...eerrrppsss... e..... and I'm not kidding!

Anyway, the point is that peoples since of a super prudish society isn't always what it seems to be!

With that I hope there aren't penis swords in 5th.


foolish_mortals

 

[Elf Witch]

I am not going to quote every post but I do have something to say about this. First off any one comparing male naked chests to female naked chest is way off. As I said in my earlier posts in our society woman breast are considered sexual. Men are not.

Now do I think that is healthy actually no. I wish we would grow up and realize that breast are a milk delivery system for infants and get over this entire idea of them as something naughty. Other cultures have no problem with this.

The issue with nudity in RPG art is that nudity is not done in a way that makes sense like showing a tribe of humoniods living in a tropical jungle and showing the females topless. In most of the RPG art I have seen with nudity is done to sexualize the woman.

If you want to look at pictures that sexualize woman then look at Playboy or you can find plenty of pictures on the internet to satisfy that. It does not really need to be in gaming books.


I won't try and speak for all woman I will just speak for myself and the woman I know and who I have talked to about this subject. Over the years we have often faced being made uncomfortable at the table because of artwork like this. As a woman it can creep you out when guys start leering at these pictures. With guys I know very well I can brush it off or even make jokes about it. But often we game at events and gaming stores with total strangers.

And since WOTC wants to bring more females into gaming I would think that one way to do it is not to creep them out. And I don't really believe most guys are going to go look no naked boobies well darn I am not buying this gaming book now. And if they do well then I for one am I glad I will never have to run into them at a gaming store.

 

[foolish_mortals]

screw boobs not being in the game! I'm more likely not to buy the thing and make fun of it for decades if there not in.

foolish_mortals

 

[Elf Witch]

That varies by the person, some are rational enough to think in context, just like Michelangelo's David isn't meant as being sexual.

But yes, there are many who have that sort of slanted thinking.

But hopefully they calling for equality in one situation and fighting against it in another.

I did not realize that was still the case. I thought that was over, like 30 years ago. Sometimes I forget how big the differences can be between states.

I can only think of a limited number of examples of either one. They're both pretty rare, and If you're just looking at topless and pictures of ass, they seem to both be represented, even more male nudity than female.

Here's what I've got for full frontal (off the top of my head)

Eurotrip: Hundreds of naked men on a beach.
Watchmen: Blue Penis.
Secretary: Brief Naked Scene at the end. Kindof a weird and controversial movie the whole way through though. And thats the only example I can think of of full frontal nudity.

So yes it happens, but it's not that common in either case.

There is a difference between art showing nudity when it is showing the human form and Playboy or a Playgirl magazines. Cheese/beefcake is meant to have a sexual aspect to it and as an owner of several fantasy pieces by Frazetta I am not against cheesecake. I think it has its place.

Oh yeah trying taking your top here on the beach where I live and you will be arrested and face a fine.

I don't think it is right that men can do it but woman can't and believe me there are men who I wish would cover up because no one wants to look at all that flab and beer belly sticking out. But as long as we view breast as sexual objects this is going to be an issue.

I could easily name a 100 movies that have full frontal nudity on woman but not nearly as many with men in it. Showing men fully nude can get an NC 17 rating but showing a woman gets an R.