bringing back outsiders

[pikafunk]

Ok, you can't raise or ressurect outsiders, unless they are native to the material plane. mm pg 313

Now if you had an outsider native to the elemental plane of air, could you ressurect them if you were in the plane of air?

 

[Tatsukun]

Yes, because on that plane ,s/he isn't an outsider (but you probably are).
You'd have to go there, then cast the spell to get the person back.


-Tatsu

 

[Alzrius]

Yes, because on that plane ,s/he isn't an outsider (but you probably are).

That is to say, an Outsider on its home plane doesn't have the Extraplanar subtype. However, that makes no difference for how easy it is to resurrect the Outsider; an Outsider on its home plane doesn't have the Native subtype, which means the standard fare for bringing an Outsider back to life (e.g. you need limited wish, wish, miracle, or true resurrection to bring it back) still applies.

That said, you'd probably find that the raise dead outsider spell from the Manual of the Planes is what you're looking for.

 

[Epametheus]

The Native Outsider exception is made for the PC outsider races: genasi, tieflings, aasimar, etc., all of whom are mostly mortal.

A balor that dies in the Abyss is just as thoroughly dead as one that dies on the Prime Material. If anything, killing something on its home plane used to be what you had to do to kill something for good.

 

[Tatsukun]

I was / am under the impression that it does make a difference. For example, an Ghaele is native to the plane of Arborea. If one comes to the prime material plane, s/he is an outsider. If s/he dies here, s/he can't be raised here because the soul has returned to the plane of Arborea.

But, if you go to the planes of Armorea and cast resurrection (or maybe true res. if you don't have the body) you can raise the Ghaele.

Of course, if said Ghaele died while still on the plane of Arborea, s/he can be raised just as a human on the prime material plane.

So the same thing applies to natives of the prime. If you go to another plane and die, you can't be raised there, you have to be raised back 'home' on the prime because you were an outsider when you died. But, if you die here (on your home plane) you can be raised as normal.

Am I mistaken in this? If so, why?

-Tatsu

 

[Saeviomagy]

I was / am under the impression that it does make a difference. For example, an Ghaele is native to the plane of Arborea. If one comes to the prime material plane, s/he is an outsider. If s/he dies here, s/he can't be raised here because the soul has returned to the plane of Arborea.

But, if you go to the planes of Armorea and cast resurrection (or maybe true res. if you don't have the body) you can raise the Ghaele.

Of course, if said Ghaele died while still on the plane of Arborea, s/he can be raised just as a human on the prime material plane.

So the same thing applies to natives of the prime. If you go to another plane and die, you can't be raised there, you have to be raised back 'home' on the prime because you were an outsider when you died. But, if you die here (on your home plane) you can be raised as normal.

Am I mistaken in this? If so, why?

-Tatsu

No - the reason you can't raise them is that an outsider doesn't have a seperate spirit and body. Hence when you kill the body, you kill the spirit too.

At least that's the explanation I remember.

 

[Alzrius]

I was / am under the impression that it does make a difference. For example, an Ghaele is native to the plane of Arborea. If one comes to the prime material plane, s/he is an outsider. If s/he dies here, s/he can't be raised here because the soul has returned to the plane of Arborea.

But, if you go to the planes of Armorea and cast resurrection (or maybe true res. if you don't have the body) you can raise the Ghaele.

Of course, if said Ghaele died while still on the plane of Arborea, s/he can be raised just as a human on the prime material plane.

So the same thing applies to natives of the prime. If you go to another plane and die, you can't be raised there, you have to be raised back 'home' on the prime because you were an outsider when you died. But, if you die here (on your home plane) you can be raised as normal.

Am I mistaken in this? If so, why?

-Tatsu

Saeviomagy is correct. The listing for Outsiders in the SRD says:

—Unlike most other living creatures, an outsider does not have a dual nature—its soul and body form one unit. When an outsider is slain, no soul is set loose. Spells that restore souls to their bodies, such as raise dead, reincarnate, and resurrection, don’t work on an outsider. It takes a different magical effect, such as limited wish, wish, miracle, or true resurrection to restore it to life. An outsider with the native subtype can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be.

An Outsider is always an Outsider, no matter what plane it is on. However, if an Outsider is on a plane that isn't the one it is originally from, it has the Extraplanar subtype. That said, if an Outsider is on its original plane, it doesn't have the Extraplanar subtype, but it still does not have the Native subtype.

An Outsider with the Native subtype has that because of its connection to the Prime Material Plane, and it retains the Native subtype even if it goes off-plane (in which case it has the Native and Extraplanar subtypes at once). An Outsider with the Native subtype can be raised etc. as a normal Humanoid character can.

 

[Li Shenron]

I think the idea behind the fact that outsiders cannot be resurrected comes from the image that they are "immortal" unless destroyed, in which case they are destroyed forever (although a deity-like intervention can create them again).

By the rules, creatures of the outsider type simply cannot be resurrected with normal resurrection spells, because they are not mortal. The exception is outsiders with the native subtype because they are "mortal outsiders" although it sounds like an oxymoron: the subtype "native" makes up for the fact that "native outsiders" are outsiders for the purposes of spells and similar things, and have lots of immunities etc. but are not real outsiders in the sense of immortals.

That said, this whole thing is really a setting issue, and as such it is perfectly possible to play in a setting where things work very differently...