Broom of Flying

[Jack Simth]

Ah, but a Flying Carpet can hover, despite the manuverability rating, and is controlled by "spoken directions". A Broom of Flying, however, doesn't specify such niceties.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Except that the description of the Broom of Flying specifically mentions a Command Word.

It only mentions the command word to summon the broom from far away. It otherwise doesn't mention the command word for normal usage, and given the context I think use-activated is the appropriate method.

And as far as spending a move action to move with the broom...I don't see a precedent. A PC doesn't have to spend a move action to move with a horse, why is riding a broom any different?

Whoa, hold on there, slick. A PC does indeed have to spend a move action to move with a horse. Reread the SRD on Mounted Combat. As on excerpt: "Essentially, you have to wait until the mount gets to your enemy before attacking, so you can’t make a full attack."

Interesting parts... "This broom is able to fly..." and the requirement for Permanency. Doesn't that mean, that it flies all by itself (yeah, kinda like a flying mount) and not just enables the user to fly like most other items, which grant fly?

I agree and just like a flying mount, you need to use a move action.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Whoa, hold on there, slick. A PC does indeed have to spend a move action to move with a horse. Reread the SRD on Mounted Combat. As on excerpt: "Essentially, you have to wait until the mount gets to your enemy before attacking, so you can’t make a full attack."

Actually, you need to reread it yourself. The fact that a rider needs to wait until he gets to the target to engage in melee means nothing. Not only could such a rider make a Move-Equivalent Action during that time such as drinking a potion, and still perform an attack at the end (proving that he hasn't used his Move-Equivalent action to "move with the horse,") but mounted archers can make a full attack while moving. They not only don't have to spend an action to move with the horse, but essentially get free movement.

It only mentions the command word to summon the broom from far away. It otherwise doesn't mention the command word for normal usage, and given the context I think use-activated is the appropriate method.

I could agree with this. Use-Activated doesn't change the fact that you don't need to spend an action to direct it, though.

I agree and just like a flying mount, you need to use a move action.

Again, no action required while riding, whether the mount is flying or otherwise.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Okay, I see where the confusion lies. I'm looking at melee attacks only, not other actions. I don't think we disagree. I'm not sure why I got that into my head, but it's my fault.

I could agree with this. Use-Activated doesn't change the fact that you don't need to spend an action to direct it, though.

Well, by definition, use-activated means it activates as a free-action only by use. So, you have to use the item. How do you use a broom of flying to move 20-40ft? Well, obviously, you take a move action to move 20-40ft.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Well, by definition, use-activated means it activates as a free-action only by use. So, you have to use the item. How do you use a broom of flying to move 20-40ft? Well, obviously, you take a move action to move 20-40ft.

Hrm. I have to admit that this makes sense. But couldn't you also "use" a Broom of Flying by "mounting" it? Assuming the flying position, as it were?

And regarding the broom vs. actual mount comparison, there is also one area where the comparison breaks down. Mounts actually have their own set of actions, which allows them to spend their action(s) to move, while the rider uses his for other purposes. Magic items don't get actions unless they're intelligent, so I can see the argument for some sort of action being required for movement...

 

[Thanee]

The broom definitely can fly without anyone spending actions, tho.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Hawken]

Well, by definition, use-activated means it activates as a free-action only by use. So, you have to use the item. How do you use a broom of flying to move 20-40ft? Well, obviously, you take a move action to move 20-40ft.

And what move action would that be? The way you "use" a broom of flying is simply to sit on it. However, sitting on a stick would be considerably more challenging than say, a saddle, so the DM would be within his rights to ask for a Balance or maybe a Ride check to stay on it if you do any fancy flying, fighting or something like that.

And regarding the broom vs. actual mount comparison, there is also one area where the comparison breaks down. Mounts actually have their own set of actions, which allows them to spend their action(s) to move, while the rider uses his for other purposes. Magic items don't get actions unless they're intelligent, so I can see the argument for some sort of action being required for movement...

The item's description states that it has its own movement rate and it can fly on its own, so it would behave just like a flying mount. If the owner tells it to go somewhere, it takes the path of least resistance to get there (flying around/over/under obstacles, not crashing through them), so the broom can maneuver on its own. It might not be sentient enough to take a move equivalent or standard action, but by its own description, it takes move actions each round. Now, whether that movement is considered a single move action or a full round move (move-move), is something for the DM to decide.

If its movement is considered a full round move (move-move) which is 40', then it would be logical to believe that it could just take a single move action and go only 20' in a round. Either way, the description states that it can move 40' in a round, so someone sitting on that broom would be no different than if they were sitting on a pegasus (or whatever that had avg. maneuverability and 40'). The broom might actually be a smoother ride though since it doesn't have to flap any wings.

If you want to see broom riding in action though, check out Miyazaki's "Kiki's Delivery Service". It's one of my daughter's favorite movies about a 13 year old witch that goes out on her own. The animation is really great and it shows various aspects of broom riding like manuevering around obstacles, carrying heavy weights, crash landings, etc. Broom riding in this movie is like its own skill too.

As for game mechanics, if you used the Pilot skill mechanics from D20 Star Wars for Ride checks, and starship piloting and maneuvering rules that would probably help out a lot too as far as where you move, how you get there and how you can do it.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

And what move action would that be? The way you "use" a broom of flying is simply to sit on it. However, sitting on a stick would be considerably more challenging than say, a saddle, so the DM would be within his rights to ask for a Balance or maybe a Ride check to stay on it if you do any fancy flying, fighting or something like that.

Hrm. I don't think I personally would saddle the item with that kind of a drawback, though I agree that a DM could reasonably do so.

The item's description states that it has its own movement rate and it can fly on its own, so it would behave just like a flying mount. If the owner tells it to go somewhere, it takes the path of least resistance to get there (flying around/over/under obstacles, not crashing through them), so the broom can maneuver on its own. It might not be sentient enough to take a move equivalent or standard action, but by its own description, it takes move actions each round. Now, whether that movement is considered a single move action or a full round move (move-move), is something for the DM to decide.

If its movement is considered a full round move (move-move) which is 40', then it would be logical to believe that it could just take a single move action and go only 20' in a round. Either way, the description states that it can move 40' in a round, so someone sitting on that broom would be no different than if they were sitting on a pegasus (or whatever that had avg. maneuverability and 40'). The broom might actually be a smoother ride though since it doesn't have to flap any wings.

This is a really persuasive argument. The fact that the broom can be commanded to go somewhere by itself is significant. I'm thinking I'd rule it as a move-move. I can't really see any downside to doing so.

If you want to see broom riding in action though, check out Miyazaki's "Kiki's Delivery Service". It's one of my daughter's favorite movies about a 13 year old witch that goes out on her own. The animation is really great and it shows various aspects of broom riding like manuevering around obstacles, carrying heavy weights, crash landings, etc. Broom riding in this movie is like its own skill too.

I don't think we can really use Kiki to adjudicate broom-flying in 3.5. As you yourself point out, it's its own skill in the anime. And I think Kiki's broom could move a heck of a lot faster than 40' per 6 seconds.

As for game mechanics, if you used the Pilot skill mechanics from D20 Star Wars for Ride checks, and starship piloting and maneuvering rules that would probably help out a lot too as far as where you move, how you get there and how you can do it.

Again, I wouldn't advocate adding a whole new set of rules to flying on a broom as opposed to flying other ways. Simple enough to treat it as a 40' fly speed for the rider, with the caveat that you have to move 20' each round and the rider's actions are governed by the riding rules. But I guess each DM has to make that call him/herself.

 

[Hawken]

I don't think we can really use Kiki to adjudicate broom-flying in 3.5. As you yourself point out, it's its own skill in the anime. And I think Kiki's broom could move a heck of a lot faster than 40' per 6 seconds.

It's just a cartoon, not a game. But the way flying by broom is discussed, it's treated like a skill. But I suppose that could be covered by the Ride skill even though it mentions only animals, not cleaning utensils. But its still good to watch to get a visual idea for your minds eye of what broom-riding could be like.

Yeah, the broom would go much faster in Kiki. Probably something like 60-80 mph since she's outdistancing cars and trucks with little effort and the only things moving faster in the sky are planes. I think 40'/round only works out to about 4.5 mph. Pretty darn slow for something airborne, even birds could overtake you at that speed (well, in real life, not by MM stats, I suppose).

 

[Thanee]

Heh. Yup, a raven also has 40' base move only.

I don't think you need any skill or that there is any noteworthy difficulty riding the broom. It's a magic item, which is supposed to work that way, the magic will provide for what is needed to ride it comfortably.

Bye
Thanee