D&D General Build the "Definitive Pantheon"

Where do you draw the line just to be clear. Is it things like clerics or the various pantheons in the PHB?
For me, the line itself is clear.

Individuals and groups can have whatever sacred traditions one wants. The violation happens when imposing it on others.

Inworld, within Forgotten Realms, religious factions are fine − including polytheistic, monotheistic, monistic, animistic, and so on. For any particular faction to rule the multiverse becomes a violation. Eberron carefully avoids this violation.
 

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For me, the line itself is clear.

Individuals and groups can have whatever sacred traditions one wants. The violation happens when imposing it on others.

Inworld, within Forgotten Realms, religious factions are fine − including polytheistic, monotheistic, monistic, animistic, and so on. For any particular faction to rule the multiverse becomes a violation. Eberron carefully avoids this violation.

No one's forcing it on you is what I'm saying.

Sometimes people have diametrically opposed views so for some things you have to opt out of it. People can't even agree on extant beliefs let alone extinct one's that have been revived.

There's not even agreement very broadly on revivals between different members.

So how is D&D any different from said revivals when there's no direct continuity to the modern day? And people cherry picking whatever appeals to that person (which often contradicts someone else's take?).

We have broadcasting standards authority here and their definition is reasonable person.

So if you can't eat apples no one can force you to eat apples. But you can't stop someone else who wants to eat apples.

No one's forcing you to eat apples. The menu might include apples. No ones forcing you to eat them, no one's forcing you to pick the menu up. Ultimately you might have to decide for yourself if you want to support people with menus including apples. If enough people agree with you that company will change or you're not in the target demographic.
 
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No, they arent "gods" in the polytheistic sense.

The Norse term goð, means "invoked one". Not "worshiped one". These are "helpful nature beings", such as thanking a storm for raining on the crops.

There are no priests, nor temples. The only formal religious leader is a shamanic, the vǫlva, and she is animistic and her office more an oracle.
okay, but god means something rather different to others. The difference between a shamanic spiritual specialist and a priest-based spiritual specialist seems like different traditions with an equivalent doctorate or masters of two different martial arts.

as god is flexible in the language of this forum and most of academia for that matter.
Going back to the beginning, let's see what we get. If it absolutely must be one per slot (a stance I personally disagree with, but it's what was requested)...

Sun: Sarenrae. The Sun, forgiveness, spring, (re)birth, restitution, laxity.
Moon: Sehanine. The Moon, autumn, healing, sleep, celebration, illusion, love/lust.
Storm: Kord. Storm/rain, strength, achievement, zeal, intoxication, hooliganism.
Life: Melora. Nature, ocean, wild(erness), bounty, freedom, savagery.
Death: Raven Queen. Death, darkness, winter, fate, ambition, betrayal/defection.*
Undeath: Vecna. Undeath, tenacity, individuality, secrets, theft, corruption.
Order: Asmodeus. Order, defense, construction, tyranny, slavery.
Chaos: Bane. Chaos, victory, versatility, conquest, bloodshed, murder.
Skill: Erathis. Skill, discipline, strategy, art, arrogance, despotism.
Wealth: Tiamat. Wealth, charisma, patience, vengeance, avarice, cruelty.
Valor: Bahamut. Justice, hope/luck, travel, glory, impudence, intrusiveness.
Magic: Corellon. Magic, summer, beauty, wood/forest, lies, vanity.
Knowledge: Ioun. Knowledge/memory, enlightenment, prophecy, fatalism, pretension.
Oblivion: Gruumsh. Oblivion/forgetting, collaboration, destruction, consumption, resourcefulness.

I have attempted to heed the "make the evil deities worthy of SOME worship" thing, while still keeping them pretty evil, and likewise making the good deities still not absolutely 100% squeaky-clean. The evil ones are not deities that a good person would happily gain favor from; at their absolute best, they're like Egypt's Sutekh/Set/Seth, someone you pray to so they'll turn their baleful eyes upon your enemies. You pray Asmodeus will look kindly on your buildings and lay waste to the walls of an enemy city. Vecna is probably the closest this pantheon gets to a god nobody sane would willingly worship--and he "earned" his divinity by hook and by crook, as it were, so it's not so weird that he'd be the one outlier. Likewise, Gruumsh is almost a likable god, representing an almost Shiva-style "destroy that which needs to be destroyed so something new can take its place" position...but he's also the patron deity of bandit hordes and colluding cartels.

I consider "tyranny" distinct from "despotism" for the same reason I consider "order" different from "justice." Tyranny is hegemonic, hierarchic, almost mechanistic; despotism is simply autocratic rule. Both Erathis and Asmodeus like societies that have clear rules and structure, but Erathis is okay with an autocrat who eliminates an ineffectual and deadlocked legislature so long as it makes the wheels of society turn, while Asmodeus would hate such a thing and call it destruction of the social order. The two of them would both hate the Galactic Empire from Star Wars, but for entirely opposite reasons. She doesn't care that the Senate is gone and such, but the resulting self-destructive government is beyond the pale. He doesn't care that the Sith government is rending its own society by ruling through fear and abuse, but the weakening/dissolution of the Senate and the foolish, wasteful use of the Death Star on Alderaan (which immediately led to a massive surge of support for the Rebellion) would be utterly unacceptable.

This makes for 14 gods, most of which are relatively "good" (Sarenrae, Sehanine, Kord, Melora, TRQ, Erathis, Bahamut, Corellon, Ioun) but definitely not always nice, while the remainder are "evil" (Vecna, Asmodeus, Bane, Tiamat, Gruumsh) but not always harmful and sometimes even helpful.

*One man's defection is another's betrayal: it's all dependent on whose side the observer favors.
you could always make vecna will to be the one to break peoples fates as people are willing to do lots of thing to get out of their depressing lot in life, plus it would tie into him becoming a god by force.

Also, love and lust seem rather unrelated love and hate are more a pair.
 

okay, but god means something rather different to others. The difference between a shamanic spiritual specialist and a priest-based spiritual specialist seems like different traditions with an equivalent doctorate or masters of two different martial arts.

as god is flexible in the language of this forum and most of academia for that matter.
It is like referring to a Muslim imam as if a "priest". It is complicated, but understandably can be annoying.
 

This is a good question and I was thinking about posting something similar asking if people had roles that they think should be in a DnD pantheon, that way you can start creating said pantheon a little easier. Using a real world pantheon and breaking them down to the basics can make for a good start.

Using the Greek Gods
  • Sky and rulership
  • Seas, earthquakes, horses
  • Marriage, women, family
  • Agriculture/harvest
  • Love, lust, beauty
  • Wisdom & warfare
  • The Hunt, wilderness
  • Archery, music, prophecy
  • Bloody warfare
  • Crafts, fire
  • Travellers, thieves, and merchants
  • Hearth, the home
  • Wine, fertility, festivity, insanity
  • Death and the underworld (including the riches within)
If we took these 14 basic portfolios, which DnD gods do people think would fit best? Would people split some of them up and merge others?

Side note, I like that Poseidon was the god of the sea but also of horses and I like adding in things like that to my homebrew pantheon so that I have a god of protectors and he is also the god of cats (due to the role as protectors against pests).

Anyway getting back on track, when I think of a gameable pantheon I think

Ixion - Sun Prince - Elemental Fire, Sky, Heroic Warrior-Patron of Paladins and Noble Fighters
Terra - Mother Earth - Elemental Earth, life and growth, -Patron of Druids
Spuming Nooga -Father Ocean - Elemental Water, Ocean, Whales , life, Storms - Patron of Sailors
Simurg -Elemental Air, Wind, Eagles, Time - Patron of Wizards and Rogues
Ka - Life and Healing, Preservation of Knowledge and Culture (plus Ka is a friggin Immortal T-Rex) - Patron of Rangers and Barbarians
Agundjil - Magic, Dragons - Patron of Sorcerers
Atzanteotl the Feathered Viper - Evil, Corruption - Patron of Warlocks
The Spider - Trickery, Mischief - Patron of Rogues
Sekolah - The Shark - Destruction, Death, Ocean
The Gullymaw - Violence, Hunger - Patron of Monsters
Brandan Earthshaker - Invention - Patron of Alchemist and Artificers
 

Got to draw the line somewhere.

If you feel that way don't buy it. What's acceptable in Norway may not be acceptable in USA or vice versa.

Catering to you (or me) is likely to offend someone else.
I know several Norwegians. The only one I’ve ever met who had a problem with games having gods is, well, the person you’re arguing with.

Catering to one person who is persistent online is definitely not a good strategy.
 

I know several Norwegians. The only one I’ve ever met who had a problem with games having gods is, well, the person you’re arguing with.

Catering to one person who is persistent online is definitely not a good strategy.

Using my menu analogy I generally don't care what gets added to D&D in splat books. I do care if you take away what I like.

If there's diametrically opposed views WotC is going to go where the numbers are.

I didn't like 4E for example. It took away what I liked. I didn't like Book of 9 Swords either. It's existence didn't bother me because I could opt out. It also didn't take away what I liked.

I dint like everything in Tashas either once again I can pick and choose. I wouldn't care if they did a Nerath book with 4E stuff in it. I liked Star Wars Saga for example it used. The 4E engine. Didn't care when the new SW RPG came out. I didn't buy it because it was bad I have no idea but had already gone through 3-6 SWRPGs by that point.
 

No one's forcing you to eat apples.
No one is forcing Non White American males, to play D&D.

Nevertheless, for D&D to remove sexist remarks and racist tropes, is wiser, and more ethical.

In 5e, cultural sensitivity is becoming increasingly important.

Being more inclusive is generally better for a popular roleplaying game.
 



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