Burning out on best campaign I ever played in

[Nathal]

Hello

We spent a week trying to word an email that would best express our concerns without sounding too much like an attack. (I suppose that right there should be a warning sign, anyone you're that afraid to set off probably has issues, or you have issues about them!).

I've never had success dealing with issues via email. I am the sort who prefers to communicate through writing so it was hard for me to understand that many people feel attacked when they receive a critical email of any sort. Many seem to feel (and I don't agree with this) that it is rude and cowardly to address a problem so formally without speaking directly to the person. As for me, I felt that email was no different from writing a letter. Even so, the creative endeavor and interactions of role-playing games does spark emotional responses, so the email might have seemed more like a bolt of lightning to the DM than a simple letter of constructive criticism. Better to speak to people directly, even if you bring your notes to the table. If the person cannot be spoken to without becoming hostile, then he or she is the problem, not you. That goes for any situation, I'd think.

The DM reacted VERY badly, answering every single point we made with a rebuttal, refusing to acknowledge that there could be anything in what he was doing that would lead to us having less fun, and saying we don't understand his concept for the campaign, and no DM could ever satisfy us.

I suggest his reaction was more hostile because it was through email and not in person where tone of voice (or lots of beer) can affect the outcome of the conversation. Email can seem SO unfriendly. Witness all of the flame wars that break out unintentionally, even among friends! I could be wrong here; maybe your DM is just a jerk all around. Certainly sounds like it.

While the tone of his response was much better, he basically said this is the way his campaign is, and while some of the upcoming adventures might be more our style, he's not going to make any changes just for us.

Your DM does not run a proper game, imo. He is not a "storyteller", which is a misnomer in RPGS (or should be), but the Game Master. He is supposed to provide you with open-ended plot lines in which you affect the outcomes, not his NPCs or predetermined plot.

I made a suggestion that perhaps we didn't need to haul around the horde of NPCs with us everywhere and the DM responded saying he didn't see a problem with it, as we wouldn't need to bring them down into a dungeon with us. That being said, I still feel that these NPCs are going to drag sessions to a crawl.

I've never had that many NPCs in the party, but I'd usually give lesser hirelings and followers sketchy personalities and then give the players the option to control their actions (except morale). More important or powerful NPCs should not be stealing the show. I'd never have more than 1 or 2 unique and interesting NPCs traveling with the party, and even then I'd never allow those people to steal the thunder.

The more I think about this, the more I think its time for me to leave, but its very difficult. To be playing in the group for three years is a very hard thing to give up. Especially like this, since the group isn't dissolving. Rather, I'm voluntarily leaving... [/B]

It is time to leave...the man wants to write a novel with you guys as the main characters. Tell him to write a book if that is what his heart desires, rather than to drag your characters through his predetermined plots. I have no patience for that sort of thing, no matter how brilliant the DM's ideas. I've told one DM already, "man, you're brilliant, I'd love to read the novel, but I refuse to be scripted."

That's it.

 

[Erithtotl]

As far as some 'non-violent protest' in-game, that wouldn't really work. In order to keep the military feel of the campaign, the DM most of the party take mostly Lawful, mostly good characters, meaning that there would be no way 'in-character' to do something out of line with the campaign design, without basically breaking the rules, which would undoubtedly result in being pulled asside from the DM, or being asked to quit. I'd rather not go out that way. He would NOT see the humor in it.

There has been some good advice here, and it sounds to me like many of you have been in similar situations, and that most of the time its not the right thing to 'gut it out'. Having someone else DM would never happen. Our DM would never accept playing in a campaign run by one of us, I'm not even sure if he enjoys playing that much anymore. If I start a new game it will likely be with an entirely new group (or maybe with one player from the old one). It may be thats the right option.

 

[Dash Dannigan]

Wow, sorry man but it certainly sounds like this guy is entrenched. Will the other guy go with you when you go? If so two players who up and walk out on the campaign may be a bit of a wake-up call for DM and group. This DM needs to get over himself, so don't worry about him too much, though it is a terribly sad situation these things happen.

Leaving unfortunately sounds to be the only sensible option this DM has left for you. Best of luck mate and here's to finding a better group/DM to play/run with. Cheers!

 

[billd91]

I've also been the player, in railroad games. We have an extremely linear game now, for very similar reasons to yours. Our group is part of an transplanar mercenary company (the Nameless Legion). So we get missions, never keep magical items, have no choice in where we go or what we do. The difference, from what you've said about your game, is that the DM isn't particularly picky about what we do. We can make a terrible hash of the whole thing, do things differently from what he wants, and he'll go with the flow.

Ultimately, any campaign focusing on a DM-delineated plotline is essentially a railroad. If you don't follow the adventure hooks to some degree, you won't get in on the plot. That said, there's a difference between DM-fiat railroading and DM-Player Cooperative Railroading.

As DM, yes, I have a plot in mind and some stuff prepared. But I recognize I can't prepare for everything the players may want to do so I try to come up with ways to pull the PCs into the plotlines without it being excessively forcible. I want them to willingly agree to follow the plot because it's good for their characters and how they want to develop them or it fits in with the characters' listed motivations and desires.

And if they go a completely different direction, I'll come up with ways to potentially steer them back, on the fly if I have to, so that they end up coming back into the plotline. If I can't do that, then I have the extra work of dissassembling what I've got and reusing as much of it as I can. The players may have to endure some relatively short, disjointed, poorly integrated episodes as I rework some of my plans and come up with a scratch plotline.

As Graf says above, a DM should be willling to let players deviate from the plot here and there, screw up here and there, and adapt and move on. He should never make his plot too rigid or dependent on the PCs following one course of action. He should present them with a situation whose resolution fits in with the goals (long or short term) of the PCs and let them deal with it from there.

 

[Zhure]

....he basically said this is the way his campaign is, and while some of the upcoming adventures might be more our style, he's not going to make any changes just for us.

That gave me three pings on the Leave-O-Meter.

RPG's are interactive and about a group dynamic. If the DM doesn't want to accomodate the players' views, it's just as bad as the players not accomodating the DM's views.

Greg

 

[sithramir]

As far as some 'non-violent protest' in-game, that wouldn't really work. In order to keep the military feel of the campaign, the DM most of the party take mostly Lawful, mostly good characters, meaning that there would be no way 'in-character' to do something out of line with the campaign design, without basically breaking the rules, which would undoubtedly result in being pulled asside from the DM, or being asked to quit. I'd rather not go out that way. He would NOT see the humor in it.

There has been some good advice here, and it sounds to me like many of you have been in similar situations, and that most of the time its not the right thing to 'gut it out'. Having someone else DM would never happen. Our DM would never accept playing in a campaign run by one of us, I'm not even sure if he enjoys playing that much anymore. If I start a new game it will likely be with an entirely new group (or maybe with one player from the old one). It may be thats the right option.

By hearing these responses. He is not the DM for you. I would definitely suggest leaving the group. However, I was in this situation and was just suggesting what I tried to show the DM I was unhappy.

His problem was that he hated high levels and high magic. My wizard finally made it to fifth level and I was unable to choose the spells I wanted. I was stuck with melf's minute meteors and I hated it. I had no magical equipment and at one point he decided to make exp charts his way. An elf took 5 times the normal exp to level. So 5000 exp or so for second level elf. That was like 3rd lvl if you decided to play a human. This is where I and other players would take no more.

I bought a DMG and started my own game. The reason I suggested doing another game was because I did that and ALL the players came to my game. Eventually even the DM learned to understand his fault (though he still wanted to DM that way while we refused to play his game) and he started playing in my game also. I just didn't want you to lose friends you've made from gaming for several years. If the DM won't tolerate another person's game then who cares? Who is he to make such a decision for ALL of you. If everyone else wants to he better suck it up or go home. You might not want to DM, but by doing this you could at least keep the same gaming friends minus one a$$ DM and eventually get a good game going.

Its sometimes not easy to move to a whole new group but if thats what it takes to make you happy do so. I just hope that this could help you find a better way to keep some of those old friends but actually enjoy the game.

 

[TiQuinn]

Yeah, you gotta get out of there. From what you've said, it sounds like each gaming session is akin to torture. You don't sound like you're enjoying it, and the more you just grin and bear it, the worse it'll get. Nothing good is going to come of staying in this game. If you do eventually get to the "end" of his campaign, you're not going to care about the outcome.

You defeat the bad guy and save the world!

yay.

You will have an 18th level character who is incredibly powerful and is strikes fear in the heart of his enemies!

Whoopie.

Right now, it sounds like you'd have more fun reading an old Choose Your Own Adventure or Steve Jackson's Sorcery book than playing in this guy's game.

 

[der_kluge]

With the exception of all the NPCs, I would have insisted that you were in my current game. Our DM has put together a large mega-plot that started us at 1st. We're now 10th, and have been playing "his story" for going on two years now. We're all pretty tired of it.

Fortunately, we know that he has an end date, because he knows I'm running my game next.

Myrmidon had the right answer - talk to the other players about it, and see if they have the same opinion as you. If they are totally loving every minute of it, you're opinion won't carry much weight, but if they all do, the DM may be forced to rethink his style or it may be time for a new DM.

In the end, the option may be to continue playing under that DM, but for him to remove much of rigidity of the games. Otherwise, you and the players may have to start taking drastic action like disobeying orders, and see how the DM reacts.

 

[Henry]

Our DM would never accept playing in a campaign run by one of us, I'm not even sure if he enjoys playing that much anymore. If I start a new game it will likely be with an entirely new group (or maybe with one player from the old one). It may be thats the right option.

A DM that doesn't want to rotate duties, or doesn't want an occasional breather? Is it possible?

In any event, it doesn't seem as if he is planning to change, and you two may possibly just be the only ones upset with the current state of affairs. The number one rule is:

If you simply aren't having fun with a campaign, even after trying it a while, then you really have no point sticking with it.

Just try to make sure they know that you have no hostile feelings, but that the current game just isn't grabbing your interest. You don't have to break all ties - it's just not fun for you to play this particular campaign style.

It's just stunned that the DM would disagree with swapping up different gaming nights with another DM in the group, for the sake of group harmony. It's what we do in our group; because not everyone is bound to like the same campaign week in and week out, we run a few weeks with one campaign and/or DM, and then we run a few weeks with another game system / campaign / DM.

 

[WizarDru]

and saying we don't understand his concept for the campaign, and no DM could ever satisfy us.
.....
While the tone of his response was much better, he basically said this is the way his campaign is, and while some of the upcoming adventures might be more our style, he's not going to make any changes just for us.

As opposed to whom? Is he playtesting a world setting or playing a game, here?

I just see Bruce McCullough of Kids in the Hall stumbling around in a puffy shirt, saying "My ART!....MY ART!..."

Different folks play the game different ways, but if fun is not being had, and a collaborative effort is not being made, why is anyone playing anything other than BG or NWNW, anyhow? My players are the springboard for ideas...the font of which the plot grows. I have meta-plots, to be sure...but they become interweaved with the PCs tales, not sledgehammers to beat PC ideas into submission.

It's a collaborative game and I wouldn't have it any other way. If I wanted that much control over a game, I'd go play with some action figures.