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C&Ds for Online D&D 5E Character Generators

Ed Friedlander reports that WotC has asked him to remove his D&D character generators. Ed ran the generators at his site, Pathguy.com, including a D&D 5E character generator. His Pathfinder RPG character generator is still running. Thanks to Slayyne for the scoop (who also reports that at least one other site has also closed). [Update: while the actual request has not been shared, others have reported that these are very amicable requests].

Ed Friedlander reports that WotC has asked him to remove his D&D character generators. Ed ran the generators at his site, Pathguy.com, including a D&D 5E character generator. His Pathfinder RPG character generator is still running. Thanks to Slayyne for the scoop (who also reports that at least one other site has also closed). [Update: while the actual request has not been shared, others have reported that these are very amicable requests].

You can see his closing note here.

"After almost two decades, Wizards of the Coast has asked me to remove my online character generators. I appreciate the many people who have written and thanked me for my work, and I hope you will continue to enjoy the hobby.

As a physician and gamer, I've supported and defended the hobby, and helped concerned families understand its value.

The "Dungeons and Dragons" phenomenon has encouraged young people to study other cultures. It is a game in which people work together to accomplish a meaningful goal. Characters even define themselves in terms of their good morals and their ethics. On one level, it simulates the spiritual warfare described in the Christian scriptures and in the Arthurian legends on which the game is based. I am proud that I was able to make a contribution.

My generator for Pathfinder will of course remain online. Click here for more information about this role-playing game.

May your dice come up 20s.

Ed Friedlander MD
"

Back in November, the D&D Tools website suffered a similar fate, as have a couple of spellcard websites. While WotC appears to be largely easygoing as far as fan creations are concerned, they do take action when content from their products is copied or distributed.

Ed's character generator created characters by selecting a number of options, and output a character sheet similar to below. I'm not all that familiar with it, so I don't know what text, if any, it may have borrowed from the official rules.

As yet, there's no license (Open Gaming or otherwise) for D&D 5th Edition (although WotC does intend to do so), although a number of publishers have published books anyway using the older Open Gaming License for D&D 3E and 3.5.

What is interesting to hear is that some people who have received such requests describe them as very amicable. Toxic Rat says "Speaking from personal experience, I received a very nice email asking that I take down particular content owned by WotC. No threats, no warnings of legal action, just a request to honor their copyright." That's great to hear.

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Here's the thing, though: in this case it looks very much like the IP wasn't being used illegally. If that is the case (which I'll concede isn't 100% established - nor will it ever be) then there is cause for complaint, because it would be a matter of WotC asserting rights they don't have and taking away something that has every right to exist.

I have every sympathy with content providers who want to protect their work. Copyright laws exist for very good reasons. But copyright laws also have their limits, again for very good reasons.

This is crazy... of course people (yes even lawyers working for big companies) make mistakes. Maybe it was sent in error, but if so, so what? If they did nothing wrong why take down anything? It is a C&D, it is basically the beginning of a discussion not an end. It in fact is a friendly dialog OPENER... if you really get one in error, write back. If on the other hand you know you have no leg to stand on, or can't be bothered just take it down...


I have a wiki for my games. Anyone can come look, but to post you need my permission. it isn't really hidden, but it also isn't easy to find (and who would want to). Back at the opening of 4e one of my players uploaded a warlock pact for me to look at for him to use. The company that owned it sent me an email (like 2 months after I let him use it no less) saying I had 'copyrighted material' posted. I sent them an email back explaining what it was for and that it was only for our use... they asked me to delete it anyway... witch I did, but the funny part is the site I used keeps an archive for 2 years of changes... so after I 'deleted' it, it stayed up for 2 years...
 

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Sacrosanct

Legend
It seems at this point that WoTC simply can't win.

"Damn them to hell for laying people off!"
"Damn them to hell for not letting anyone put out 5e stuff on their own!"

If you can't see how the second amplifies the first, then I don't know what to tell you. 5e JUST came out. Give them some time to put together a quality digital product before lighting the torches.
 

It seems at this point that WoTC simply can't win.

"Damn them to hell for laying people off!"
"Damn them to hell for not letting anyone put out 5e stuff on their own!"

If you can't see how the second amplifies the first, then I don't know what to tell you. 5e JUST came out. Give them some time to put together a quality digital product before lighting the torches.


companies are all supposed to pay there employees, and have plenty of work for them, but not charge for there services, and let other people use there IP willy nilly... now where the money comes from, no one cares "Let them take it from Magic sales" I'm sure is what some think... but then what if they handled magic that way...
 

Bugleyman

First Post
yes by doing there jobs and maintaining the business end they lost your business... what is the alternate path? Not defend there IP, and shut there doors?


lets try this, reread where people point out why they issue C&D... then read how this is part of there jobs, and that the people receiving the C&D might be in the wrong, but because you want what they do, that should matter.



I don't find "People who just want free stuff know best" a better argument at all.

infact it seems to me that the people who complain about C&D letters are those that want free online resources... so because they wont give you what you want you think someone else has the right to illegally use the IP...

Who said anything about "free stuff?" I'm not sure which argument you think you're having.

As for what they should do, I've outlined a perfectly viable course of action up thread.
 
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Bugleyman

First Post
I'm pretty sure they've lost you as a customer at least three times now! :)

Nope; just the once. I simply check back from time to time in the hopes that they'll grow a clue. But apparently they'd rather I play Pathfinder (or 13th Age. Or Savage Worlds. Or Fate. Or Dungeon World. Or C&C. Or any of the hundreds of other RPGs that do much more digitally than D&D...and with much less).

But since you've taken to attacking my credibility, rather than my argument, I'm out.
 
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Who said anything about "free stuff?"

I'm not sure which argument you think you're having. As for what they should do, I've outlined a perfectly viable course of action up thread.

people are complaing that people are being given a C&D for there free character builders... people seem to think WotC owes them a builder... and if they can't get one (because trap door flaked) then they should let people do so for free...
 

Bugleyman

First Post
people are complaing that people are being given a C&D for there free character builders... people seem to think WotC owes them a builder... and if they can't get one (because trap door flaked) then they should let people do so for free...

I'm not sure what people are complaining about, but you responded to me.

I have no expectation of receiving anything for free. I'm happy -- eager even -- to pay to consume the content in the manner most convenient to me. The problem is that for some reason, WotC cant (or won't) get. it. done.

Instead of telling people who want to consume content digitally that they're being unreasonable, perhaps you might try acknowledging that the preference-- especially in the context of an industry where every other company gets it -- is a valid one. And further, it is a demand that WotC is failing to meet.
 

Gecko85

Explorer
The problem is that for some reason, WotC cant (or won't) get. it. done.
WotC was trying to get it done...they even advertised for their upcoming digital tools. Turns out the company they had hired wasn't able to deliver to their satisfaction, so they canned them. That doesn't mean WotC is abandoning digital tools. The PHB has been out 5 months, the DMG less than 2. The full-suite of digital tools was supposed to be happened right about now. The amount of hand-wringing over the fact there's been a setback is insane. Seems the sky is perpetually falling...
 

Bugleyman

First Post
WotC was trying to get it done...they even advertised for their upcoming digital tools. Turns out the company they had hired wasn't able to deliver to their satisfaction, so they canned them. That doesn't mean WotC is abandoning digital tools. The PHB has been out 5 months, the DMG less than 2. The full-suite of digital tools was supposed to be happened right about now. The amount of hand-wringing over the fact there's been a setback is insane. Seems the sky is perpetually falling...

I guess you've missed the last decade or so?

I was at Gencon in '07 when they announced 4E, along with all the digital tools. And again in '08, and '09. I waited patiently, but those tools never came to pass. Now, almost unbelievably, they've done it again with 5E. Fool me once...

At this point I can see no reasonable explanation for a decade of failure save simple incompetence. If you have a practical alternative, I'd love to hear it, but please refrain from dismissing my position as "nerd rage" or "wanting free stuff."
 
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Gecko85

Explorer
I guess you've missed the last decade or so?

I was at Gencon in '07 when they announced 4E, along with all the digital tools. And again in '08, and '09. I waited patiently, but those tools never came to pass. Now, almost unbelievably, they've done it again with 5E. Fool me once...

At this point I can see no reasonable explanation for a decade of failure save simple incompetence. If you have a practical alternative, I'd love to hear it, but please refrain from dismissing my position as "nerd rage" or "wanting free stuff."

So, D&DI never happened? Weird...Maybe it didn't have everything you wanted, but to say "those tools never came to pass" is disingenuous. Character Builder, Rules Compendium, Monster Builder, Encounter Builder, Ability Generator, and two online magazines. Again, not perfect...they never did release a virtual tabletop (but others have stepped in to fill that void), but to say they never released any digital tools is just flat-out false.
 

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