C&Ds for Online D&D 5E Character Generators

Ed Friedlander reports that WotC has asked him to remove his D&D character generators. Ed ran the generators at his site, Pathguy.com, including a D&D 5E character generator. His Pathfinder RPG character generator is still running. Thanks to Slayyne for the scoop (who also reports that at least one other site has also closed). [Update: while the actual request has not been shared, others have reported that these are very amicable requests].

You can see his closing note here.

"After almost two decades, Wizards of the Coast has asked me to remove my online character generators. I appreciate the many people who have written and thanked me for my work, and I hope you will continue to enjoy the hobby.

As a physician and gamer, I've supported and defended the hobby, and helped concerned families understand its value.

The "Dungeons and Dragons" phenomenon has encouraged young people to study other cultures. It is a game in which people work together to accomplish a meaningful goal. Characters even define themselves in terms of their good morals and their ethics. On one level, it simulates the spiritual warfare described in the Christian scriptures and in the Arthurian legends on which the game is based. I am proud that I was able to make a contribution.

My generator for Pathfinder will of course remain online. Click here for more information about this role-playing game.

May your dice come up 20s.

Ed Friedlander MD"

Back in November, the D&D Tools website suffered a similar fate, as have a couple of spellcard websites. While WotC appears to be largely easygoing as far as fan creations are concerned, they do take action when content from their products is copied or distributed.

Ed's character generator created characters by selecting a number of options, and output a character sheet similar to below. I'm not all that familiar with it, so I don't know what text, if any, it may have borrowed from the official rules.

As yet, there's no license (Open Gaming or otherwise) for D&D 5th Edition (although WotC does intend to do so), although a number of publishers have published books anyway using the older Open Gaming License for D&D 3E and 3.5.

What is interesting to hear is that some people who have received such requests describe them as very amicable. Toxic Rat says "Speaking from personal experience, I received a very nice email asking that I take down particular content owned by WotC. No threats, no warnings of legal action, just a request to honor their copyright." That's great to hear.

​

 

[Bugleyman]

With roll20 come the character sheets. Don't be willfully obtuse.

Whatever, man. Just like I said, some people will defend WotC no matter what. You even arrived on cue.

Meanwhile, some of us are concerned because we see a real problem. If it's not a problem for you, great, but why do you have to insist it's not a problem for us?

 

[Toxic_Rat]

As for the importance of digital itself...agree to disagree. I don't play or run 5E, strictly because of the digital situation; therefore, I can state with 100% confidence that at least one customer has been lost. It isn't hard to find others saying the same thing. But ultimately, each of us can only speak for ourselves. No one -- not even WotC -- knows how many people will vote with their feet, but a smart company would try to figure that out by listening​ in places like this thread.

I agree with your point that a smart company would try to figure out how digital tools would affect their product. This is much is just common sense. However, regarding the original thought from DEFCON 1:

Sure, they'll continually complain about it... but if the game itself is that good, they'll keep playing regardless of how automated tools they have at their disposal to assist them.

In the two games I'm involved in (one as DM, other as PC), the lack of sanctioned digital tools has not had a negative effect on our desire to play. Most of the guys I DM for would not even use the tools if they were available. We (people on the forums) are biased toward online tools because it's where we are...but I doubt its the driving force behind D&D. That said, WotC really does need to issue an OGL to encourage growth in those areas that are being left behind by ignoring the digital area of the hobby.

 

[Bugleyman]

In the two games I'm involved in (one as DM, other as PC), the lack of sanctioned digital tools has not had a negative effect on our desire to play. Most of the guys I DM for would not even use the tools if they were available. We (people on the forums) are biased toward online tools because it's where we are...but I doubt its the driving force behind D&D. That said, WotC really does need to issue an OGL to encourage growth in those areas that are being left behind by ignoring the digital area of the hobby.

Meanwhile, in my neck of the woods, I'm running two Pathfinder games that would both be 5E games if digital books and a character generator were available.

Again, if it's not a problem for you, great. Why do you feel the need to insist it's not a problem for others?

 

[SkidAce]

Do you *really* think the WotC legal team plays D&D and spends time looking into how D&D is consumed?
WotC is a CCG company. And their legal team is focused on that.

/whisper

sssshhhhhhh, they are watching this thread....{looks around cautiously}


- humor

 

[Gecko85]

Whatever, man. Just like I said, some people will defend WotC no matter what. You even arrived on cue.

Meanwhile, some of us are concerned because we see a real problem. If it's not a problem for you, great, but why do you have to insist it's not a problem for us?

Moving targets and strawmen are great, aren't they?

 

[Bugleyman]

Moving targets and strawmen are great, aren't they?

I don't even know what that's supposed to mean.

Some of us have a problem and wish WotC would improve their digital offerings. Further, we're concerned if they don't, the consequences for 5E could be bad. I'm sorry these things offend you.

 

[Slayyne]

Guys, it's really not that complex.

Lone Wolf gets into discussions with WotC about licensing the Fifth Edition rules set so that Lone Wolf can produce a module for HeroLab. WotC quotes a license figure, and Lone Wolf responds that the number seems a bit steep when others are producing character generators online without paying a dime. WotC sends out friendly 'please respect our copyright' notices.

Did this part happen, or is it based on conjecture in order to make your point? I know that Lone Wolf issued a statement about it in early January but they made it sound like they were waiting on an OGL not negotiating on the price.

 

[Jester David]

Do you *really* think they don't know about the largest virtual tabletop system, used by tens of thousands of players?

Yes. There's no reason to assume they'd know any more than lawyers in, say, the traffic defence firm done the road would know.
The legal team at WotC's primary goal is to defend the IP of a brand that makes hundreds of millions of dollars. Their second goal is to protect their other brand that makes hundreds of millions of dollars. D&D is somewhere around third or fourth. Protecting D&D IP is something likely done periodically but nothing they can invest time and too much effort into, because spending time researching D&D is literally time wasted when they could be better defending Magic or Duel Masters.

Finding an infringing character builder is easy, as those have been around for years and the search terms are obvious.
Roll 20 is new, under two years old, and really only something you're aware of if you're looking for a VTT or really deep into the D&D community. And on a casual glance at the software you're unlikely to find any infringing material. You need to hit the forums to find stuff like that.

 

[Toxic_Rat]

Meanwhile, in my neck of the woods, I'm running two Pathfinder games that would both be 5E games if digital books and a character generator were available.

Again, if it's not a problem for you, great. Why do you feel the need to insist it's not a problem for others?

Ah, that is not what I'm saying. I agree that there should be a digital offering. It would help to potentially draw more people in. I just don't believe that the lack thereof will be the end of the game.

 

[aramis erak]

Hopefully it turns out better than Master Tools did...what a turd that turned out to be.

I don't claim to understand copyright/IP laws, but I fail to see how this generator was a threat to WotC/Hasbro any more than any of the fan created material here on ENworld is. Like the material here it generates interest in a game/hobby that in this age of constant electronic stimuli is sorely needed. As was mentioned earlier, you still had to own all the books to make use of it.

Even if they are within their legal rights, it just seems very short sighted and bad PR to me.

I am not a lawyer. I am especially not your lawyer. This is not legal advice.
In the US...Trademarks have to be defended or they can be voided. If the generator was using trademarked terms, then, in order to not lose them, WotC MUST order the host to take them down when they become aware of them. Failure to do so can void the trademark. You can, however, use someone else's trademarks, provided you properly acknowledge them. (I've only received one takedown notice in 25 years on the internet... because I put up a page about the element Palladium, and Palladium games sent a sneering C&D... which I proceeded to threaten to sue them over, because it's obvious that the page had nothing to do with their game... Never got a reply back. Not a summons.)

Copyrights do not have to be aggressively defended, but there's a misconception that they do. If a company is shown to have lax policies regarding their copyrighted materials, however, it can reduce damages awarded when they do crack down on some particular abuser. (As has been noted in several legal decisions I've read.)

The combination of Copyright and Trademark violations absolutely requires them to act because they are part of a public stock company. Failure to act puts the board and the VP's under potential lawsuit threat for failure to act in the company's best interests; they have a legal duty/obligation to maximize profits. Loss of the trademarks and devaluation of the copyrights is in fact grounds for removal of VP's and/or the BoD as it stands to reduce profits. And their job is not content creation nor fan support; their one and only job, under the law, is to generate profits — fan support and publications are methods for generating profits, not the goals themselves.

Given the imperatives, that they started with polite C&D letters is a sure sign of sensitivity to fan desires. They could have pulled a GW, and started with an ultimatum: "Take down within 30 days or we sue you." They cannot, at present, go straight to the lawsuit mode; Even GW can't, as the copyright law and trademark law both require the C&D letter as a first remedy attempt.

The ones not getting takedowns are probably acknowledging the trademarks and paraphrasing the rules. That's legal. (TSR v. Mayfair Games). And they aren't using 5E trade dress. (ibid.)

Moreover, Hasbro has a crack team of lawyers - and it's not hard to see where the generators are infringing, if you know where to look and what to look for.

So it boils down to this TL/DR:

• infringements against the basic rules have less damage potential because the basic rules are free.
• Infringements against the PHB and other non-free works have significant damage potential, because of loss of sales
• failure to act shows a permissiveness that can reduce the claimable damages in Copyright and can void the Trademarks.
• The higherups must protect the IP under US laws.