C&Ds for Online D&D 5E Character Generators

Ed Friedlander reports that WotC has asked him to remove his D&D character generators. Ed ran the generators at his site, Pathguy.com, including a D&D 5E character generator. His Pathfinder RPG character generator is still running. Thanks to Slayyne for the scoop (who also reports that at least one other site has also closed). [Update: while the actual request has not been shared, others have reported that these are very amicable requests].

Ed Friedlander reports that WotC has asked him to remove his D&D character generators. Ed ran the generators at his site, Pathguy.com, including a D&D 5E character generator. His Pathfinder RPG character generator is still running. Thanks to Slayyne for the scoop (who also reports that at least one other site has also closed). [Update: while the actual request has not been shared, others have reported that these are very amicable requests].

You can see his closing note here.

"After almost two decades, Wizards of the Coast has asked me to remove my online character generators. I appreciate the many people who have written and thanked me for my work, and I hope you will continue to enjoy the hobby.

As a physician and gamer, I've supported and defended the hobby, and helped concerned families understand its value.

The "Dungeons and Dragons" phenomenon has encouraged young people to study other cultures. It is a game in which people work together to accomplish a meaningful goal. Characters even define themselves in terms of their good morals and their ethics. On one level, it simulates the spiritual warfare described in the Christian scriptures and in the Arthurian legends on which the game is based. I am proud that I was able to make a contribution.

My generator for Pathfinder will of course remain online. Click here for more information about this role-playing game.

May your dice come up 20s.

Ed Friedlander MD
"

Back in November, the D&D Tools website suffered a similar fate, as have a couple of spellcard websites. While WotC appears to be largely easygoing as far as fan creations are concerned, they do take action when content from their products is copied or distributed.

Ed's character generator created characters by selecting a number of options, and output a character sheet similar to below. I'm not all that familiar with it, so I don't know what text, if any, it may have borrowed from the official rules.

As yet, there's no license (Open Gaming or otherwise) for D&D 5th Edition (although WotC does intend to do so), although a number of publishers have published books anyway using the older Open Gaming License for D&D 3E and 3.5.

What is interesting to hear is that some people who have received such requests describe them as very amicable. Toxic Rat says "Speaking from personal experience, I received a very nice email asking that I take down particular content owned by WotC. No threats, no warnings of legal action, just a request to honor their copyright." That's great to hear.

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Warbringer

Explorer
Well, 5e definitely does have that 2e feel.

Its feeling like the marketing on 5e is really fumbling in the dark.

Cancelled projects
Poor release schedule
Poorly articulated use and distribution agreements
Poorly edited secondary content

All in all, disappointing
 

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DEFCON 1

Legend
Supporter
I'll tell you what's annoying... the old "If we don't have online tools, the game is going to DIE!" meme.

No it's not. Online generators or tools will having nothing to do with it. It never did and it never will. 4E had several online generators and tools created by WotC itself and it's not like that magically saved the game. And before you try and come back with "Well, if the tools were better, the game would have been more popular and lasted longer"... just stop right there. No it wouldn't have. I know it, and you know it. D&D Insider was probably a wonderful moneymaker for Wizards and they worked very well for a large percentage of the players who subscribed... but there is nothing that can be gleamed from having the tools themselves to determine whether it prolonged or shortened the game's lifespan.

Are online tools nice? Absolutely. Are they nicer in people's opinions if they are FREE? Even more absolutely. But does the largest percentage of the D&D populace *not* use them or quite frankly even know of their existence? Even morest absolutely.

So no... these C&Ds will annoy an extremely small segment of players... but which will do very little to the success or failure of D&D 5E on the whole. Because let's face it... even of that extremely small segment of players, only an extremely segment of THEM will quit 5E ENTIRELY because they won't have an online character generator to use. Sure, they'll continually complain about it... but if the game itself is that good, they'll keep playing regardless of how automated tools they have at their disposal to assist them.
 

Bugleyman

First Post
Sure, they'll continually complain about it... but if the game itself is that good, they'll keep playing regardless of how automated tools they have at their disposal to assist them.

Just like they kept playing 4E, AMIRITE? The fact is, a company's actions matter.

As for the importance of digital itself...agree to disagree. I don't play or run 5E, strictly because of the digital situation; therefore, I can state with 100% confidence that at least one customer has been lost. It isn't hard to find others saying the same thing. But ultimately, each of us can only speak for ourselves. No one -- not even WotC -- knows how many people will vote with their feet, but a smart company would try to figure that out by listening​ in places like this thread.

Edit: Calling something a meme isn't actually an argument against that thing. :cool:
 
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delericho

Legend
I'll tell you what's annoying... the old "If we don't have online tools, the game is going to DIE!" meme.

Very few people are saying that. It's the lack of online tools and the lack of a license for third-party support and the light release schedule and the absence of Dragon and Dungeon magazines.

Removing one pillar of support won't harm the edition. Removing them all might.

Online generators or tools will having nothing to do with it. It never did and it never will. 4E had several online generators and tools created by WotC itself and it's not like that magically saved the game.

While I agree with your premise here, your logic is flawed. If having the tools was a necessary but not sufficient condition for the game to survive, then not having the tools could indeed kill 5e, while having the tools was not enough to save 4e.
 

Reynard

Legend
So no... these C&Ds will annoy an extremely small segment of players... but which will do very little to the success or failure of D&D 5E on the whole. Because let's face it... even of that extremely small segment of players, only an extremely segment of THEM will quit 5E ENTIRELY because they won't have an online character generator to use. Sure, they'll continually complain about it... but if the game itself is that good, they'll keep playing regardless of how automated tools they have at their disposal to assist them.

It goes well beypnd the impact of a singular digital tool like a character generator (especially for 5E since you can literally whip up a 20th level character in under an hour, much less so for the simpler builds). At issue is the general digital presence of 5E. People can talk about how they used to play (A)D&D back in the day with nothing but their books and their dice (I am one of them, btw -- playing since 1985) but the fact is that the digital space is where hobbies thrive, especially niche ones. How do you find out about new releases? Online. How do you fine out when the next local con is? Online. Where do you go to look up something you need to know? Online. Ignoring the online space (or nearly ignoring it as WotC seems to be doing) is terribly ineffective for a hobby like table top roleplaying gaming. The old argument that only a small subset of games are active online is just that -- an old argument. it might have held water in 1999, but even then I doubt it. i remember talking about games on usenet and compuserve and certainly by the early 90s we were using AOL to organize games and play online. Ask [MENTION=80342]morris[/MENTION] if ENWorld would be as successful as it is if only a tiny fraction of gamers relied on the digital space.
 

Gecko85

Explorer
I ran Lost Mines of Phandelver on Roll20, with 5e rules and a very robust 5e auto-generating character sheet. I guess those digital tools were a figment of my imagination?
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
I ran Lost Mines of Phandelver on Roll20, with 5e rules and a very robust 5e auto-generating character sheet. I guess those digital tools were a figment of my imagination?

Do you get a commission from WotC's legal department? You seem to be going out of your way to bring a lot of things to their attention! :D
 

Bugleyman

First Post
Assuming the "very robust 5e auto-generating charater sheet" you mention still exists, it sounds like exactly the sort of thing Wizards is targeting.

But really, is your argument actually that WotC is doing a bang-up job in the digital space because someone, somewhere has temporarily avoided being shut down by their legal team? :cool:
 

Reynard

Legend
I ran Lost Mines of Phandelver on Roll20, with 5e rules and a very robust 5e auto-generating character sheet. I guess those digital tools were a figment of my imagination?

They were fan made, which means they are subject to a C&D, which is the whole point of the discussion and the argument that WotC should produce an OGL or something similar to allow fans and third parties to produce this stuff (without uncertainty hanging over their heads) since they tend to do it much more effectively and efficiently than WotC can or is willing to.
 

If WotC's response to an online tool is to C+D that doesn't bode well for the OGL permitting digital tools. If they were planning on permitting tools and someone was jumping the gun, it would be easier to just ignore than risk negative publicity.

That doesn't look good for DungeonScape or HeroLabs being able to release things. Trapdoor Tech beter start circulating their resume...
 
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