C&Ds for Online D&D 5E Character Generators

Ed Friedlander reports that WotC has asked him to remove his D&D character generators. Ed ran the generators at his site, Pathguy.com, including a D&D 5E character generator. His Pathfinder RPG character generator is still running. Thanks to Slayyne for the scoop (who also reports that at least one other site has also closed). [Update: while the actual request has not been shared, others have reported that these are very amicable requests].

You can see his closing note here.

"After almost two decades, Wizards of the Coast has asked me to remove my online character generators. I appreciate the many people who have written and thanked me for my work, and I hope you will continue to enjoy the hobby.

As a physician and gamer, I've supported and defended the hobby, and helped concerned families understand its value.

The "Dungeons and Dragons" phenomenon has encouraged young people to study other cultures. It is a game in which people work together to accomplish a meaningful goal. Characters even define themselves in terms of their good morals and their ethics. On one level, it simulates the spiritual warfare described in the Christian scriptures and in the Arthurian legends on which the game is based. I am proud that I was able to make a contribution.

My generator for Pathfinder will of course remain online. Click here for more information about this role-playing game.

May your dice come up 20s.

Ed Friedlander MD"

Back in November, the D&D Tools website suffered a similar fate, as have a couple of spellcard websites. While WotC appears to be largely easygoing as far as fan creations are concerned, they do take action when content from their products is copied or distributed.

Ed's character generator created characters by selecting a number of options, and output a character sheet similar to below. I'm not all that familiar with it, so I don't know what text, if any, it may have borrowed from the official rules.

As yet, there's no license (Open Gaming or otherwise) for D&D 5th Edition (although WotC does intend to do so), although a number of publishers have published books anyway using the older Open Gaming License for D&D 3E and 3.5.

What is interesting to hear is that some people who have received such requests describe them as very amicable. Toxic Rat says "Speaking from personal experience, I received a very nice email asking that I take down particular content owned by WotC. No threats, no warnings of legal action, just a request to honor their copyright." That's great to hear.

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[Toxic_Rat]

Yes, it would have been nice to have a full set of digital tools ready at the same time as the physical books. However, I would much rather have the books now, and the tools later. Can you imagine the uproar if WotC were to have waited for Trapdoor to produce its suite of tools? I think we're much better off having the books in hand than waiting while software is developed.

 

[Mark CMG]

Yes, it would have been nice to have a full set of digital tools ready at the same time as the physical books. However, I would much rather have the books now, and the tools later. Can you imagine the uproar if WotC were to have waited for Trapdoor to produce its suite of tools? I think we're much better off having the books in hand than waiting while software is developed.

You've missed the point about the standards expected of the industry leader. No one is suggesting they should produce the books and sit on them until tools are done. The idea is that the industry leader might want to step up their game and get both done in tandem.

 

[delericho]

Essentially, he feels they need to change with the times insofar as they need to release all three books at once (like the last two times they released three core books with 4E and 3.5E)

Okay, fair enough. FWIW, I disagree - by focussing on one at a time they appear to have achieved a better standard throughout than would otherwise have been the case.

and they need to have digital tools ready on release (digital tools like they had for 3.5E and 4E, even if those were late for those editions and not ready for the release).

If WotC do indeed intend to be the leader in the RPG industry then I agree they need digital tools, but I disagree that they need them on launch - in fact, I doubt that's a realistic objective unless they're willing to delay the print books for an additional year while getting the tools ready.

That said, the 'if' at the start of the previous paragraph is a big question - I don't think WotC actually do indeed intend, or even care, to be the leader of the RPG industry. Their focus lies elsewhere.

 

[Toxic_Rat]

You've missed the point about the standards expected of the industry leader. No one is suggesting they should produce the books and sit on them until tools are done. The idea is that the industry leader might want to step up their game and get both done in tandem.

The trouble might be the definition of "industry standards." There are just not a lot of big companies in the RPG world. It's kind of hard to develop a standard when its just Paizo and WotC. (Not meaning any disrespect to other publishers here...but most other rulesets are pretty small compared to PF and D&D). That said, I think that releasing an OGL shouldn't have been that big of a deal. I'm sitting on my own set of digital tools, just waiting to see what I can release for download. I do at least get to use them in my home game.

 

[Mark CMG]

The trouble might be the definition of "industry standards." There are just not a lot of big companies in the RPG world. It's kind of hard to develop a standard when its just Paizo and WotC. (Not meaning any disrespect to other publishers here...but most other rulesets are pretty small compared to PF and D&D).

There's probably a few more than just those two. Nevertheless, it's going to be hard to dispute it being the new standard if some other company comes along and releases all that at the same time, even with a smaller ruleset. At that point, it will be yet another blow to WotC's already shaky position as top dog in the RPG field. Selling the most and being the most recognized worldwide are a big deal but nobody goes around saying McDonald's is the best restaurant nor the Big Mac the best burger, not even McDonald's.

That said, I think that releasing an OGL shouldn't have been that big of a deal. I'm sitting on my own set of digital tools, just waiting to see what I can release for download. I do at least get to use them in my home game.

I'm sure others will like to see them as well.

 

[Toxic_Rat]

There's probably a few more than just those two. Nevertheless, it's going to be hard to dispute it being the new standard if some other company comes along and releases all that at the same time, even with a smaller ruleset. At that point, it will be yet another blow to WotC's already shaky position as top dog in the RPG field. Selling the most and being the most recognized worldwide are a big deal but nobody goes around saying McDonald's is the best restaurant nor the Big Mac the best burger, not even McDonald's.

I'm sure others will like to see them as well.

You're right. It would have been nice to have WotC move the standard in this direction. It's difficult for them (anyone) to really know what the effect would have been had they waited and released digital and print together. Would it have brought in more customers? Probably. Would that have been enough to justify the extra cost in time and money? I don't know.

 

[Mark CMG]

You're right. It would have been nice to have WotC move the standard in this direction. It's difficult for them (anyone) to really know what the effect would have been had they waited and released digital and print together. Would it have brought in more customers? Probably. Would that have been enough to justify the extra cost in time and money? I don't know.

I really don't think you understand. You keep saying "waiting" when I keep explaining that building them in tandem doesn't require one to wait for the other. It probably requires more manpower than WotC is willing to hire in-house but maybe someone like Paizo could handle it. Or maybe we'll see someone like Green Ronin pull it off with some new game by working with someone outside the company. I get the feeling WotC is tied so closely to such a big corporation that it doesn't have the flexibility to work with someone outside on something like this; too many over-chefs for various approvals to make it possible for simultaneous release. Even with adventures and supplements licensed out, there seem to be problems, so something like digital tools which they've had huge problems with in the past might be well beyond their capabilities, in-house or licensed.

 

[Toxic_Rat]

I really don't think you understand. You keep saying "waiting" when I keep explaining that building them in tandem doesn't require one to wait for the other.

Oh. Here is where we do disagree then. I think that digital (talking about tools here, not the pdf's) of necessity does lag behind the game development. It's just lost work if the digital side starts coding the character generation when the rules team is still changing things. Can digital and pre-press run at the same time? Yes, but I suspect that getting the book ready for printing takes less time than development of a digital tool suite. Plus, when you have to commit to a deadline, it's easier to predict when X copies of the book will be available vs. when the digital tools will be ready for release. They had to have books ready for GenCon '14. Anything that got in the way of making that deadline probably got shelved until after that time had passed.

At any rate, more manpower would definitely have been needed, or at least a decent subcontractor. Remember, while 5E is a success now, there was no guarantee it would be. It would make better business sense to get 5E out the door as soon as possible (and have it be a quality product) and make sure it was well received, than to spend the time/money on adding digital to the mix. I just don't think that adding digital tools makes or breaks the success of 5E.

 

[Mark CMG]

Oh. Here is where we do disagree then. I think that digital (talking about tools here, not the pdf's) of necessity does lag behind the game development. It's just lost work if the digital side starts coding the character generation when the rules team is still changing things. Can digital and pre-press run at the same time? Yes, but I suspect that getting the book ready for printing takes less time than development of a digital tool suite. Plus, when you have to commit to a deadline, it's easier to predict when X copies of the book will be available vs. when the digital tools will be ready for release. They had to have books ready for GenCon '14. Anything that got in the way of making that deadline probably got shelved until after that time had passed.

At any rate, more manpower would definitely have been needed, or at least a decent subcontractor. Remember, while 5E is a success now, there was no guarantee it would be. It would make better business sense to get 5E out the door as soon as possible (and have it be a quality product) and make sure it was well received, than to spend the time/money on adding digital to the mix. I just don't think that adding digital tools makes or breaks the success of 5E.

I see what you're saying but its really a matter of having enough manpower on each side of the equation to ensure simultaneous release. Again, you think of it as "adding" digital tools, so your conclusions about what needs to be done first is a self-fulfilling prophesy. They didn't *have* to have the books ready for any particular time. It's a larger overall project and just needs to be planned properly for it to come about in that manner.

 

[Staffan]

note that you can reference trademarks as part of fair use

On the other hand, the OGL states "You agree not to indicate compatibility or co-adaptability with any Trademark or Registered Trademark in conjunction with a work containing Open Game Content except as expressly licensed in another, independent Agreement with the owner of such Trademark or Registered Trademark."

Some might argue that fair use overrides the license. Others would argue the license requires you to forego that particular right in order to benefit from the other parts of it. I'm no lawyer, so I wouldn't know.