Calculating XP drives me crazy

[Treebore]

The only problem I see is if a PC gets into a rut of bad luck and dies every level, or twice in a level.

Personally the gods only punish the PC with penalties if they die because of stupid choices. If they die because they were holding back the horde or simply because I got a series of good hits and damage against them, I don't add insult to injury. They get raised and have no penalties. Only when they die due to bad tactics or other bad/stupid thinking do they suffer any penalties.

Plus my players tend to use death of the PC as an opportunity to switch to a new character one level lower than the party level.

I do like the AP and xp pool rules and don't see a problem with those. I'm sure there is room for abuse, but I don't see how.

 

[Piratecat]

You know, part of this exercise is for the purpose of my next campaign; since my current PCs have access to true rez, so long as the cleric doesn't bite it they'll probably never have to worry about the penalty. Still, it's worth doing correctly.

Interestingly, the negative level (and the pall that hangs over a person who has one) fits in really well to my DMing philosophy about death. I try to emphasize the societal ramifications of having died. I want it to feel like a big deal, and that's not usually easy in a game where raise dead is easily accessible.

This way, though? It's easy to say that society shuns those who have returned from death's realm but who haven't paid the toll. Bad luck haunts them, and it's thought that they bring bad luck to those around them. It's a neat way to strengthen the feel of your campaign.

 

[Crothian]

I pretend to do XP from the book, but in reality I don't. At the beginning of a campaign I like to think how fast I like the group to level. If that's one every 4 sessions like the default then one fourth the XP to level becomes the baseline. Then if the party does more in a given session I increase that if they do less they get less. Now when my 4th level party said they wanted to kill Hill Giants and then did so, they got a lot of XP compaired to their level. But I kept track of how many sessions we play so while they gained fast in the early game they slowed down in the later game.

When they die they lose a levels worth of XP, but if that would reduce them a level I never make them actually go down a level. they are just in the hole and need to make that up.

I wanted to have death mean something more and tried to do some short message board role playing but that feel on its face. In the end my players didn't want that judging by their actions. Though next D&D campaign I'll be using the options for coming back wrong in Heroes of Horror.

Also, in Atlas' book Touched by the Gods there is a great little church that believes anyone brought back from the dead is actually a form of undead, and they hunt them.

 

[Nebulous]

The second-to-final issue we need to address here is the price of death. We don't like our characters dying, but there should be some reason to fear death.

I hate the "lose a level" mechanic. I just have the PC's lose enough Con to suffer hp loss/level, and maybe a 10% XP drain. It's not as discouraging as losing a whole damn level.

 

[Treebore]

I pretend to do XP from the book, but in reality I don't. At the beginning of a campaign I like to think how fast I like the group to level. If that's one every 4 sessions like the default then one fourth the XP to level becomes the baseline. Then if the party does more in a given session I increase that if they do less they get less. Now when my 4th level party said they wanted to kill Hill Giants and then did so, they got a lot of XP compaired to their level. But I kept track of how many sessions we play so while they gained fast in the early game they slowed down in the later game.

When they die they lose a levels worth of XP, but if that would reduce them a level I never make them actually go down a level. they are just in the hole and need to make that up.

I wanted to have death mean something more and tried to do some short message board role playing but that feel on its face. In the end my players didn't want that judging by their actions. Though next D&D campaign I'll be using the options for coming back wrong in Heroes of Horror.

Also, in Atlas' book Touched by the Gods there is a great little church that believes anyone brought back from the dead is actually a form of undead, and they hunt them.

Since I usually have a large part of my campaign based around modules I just give them enough xp's to be the correct level for the adventure. Of course now that my group consists only of my wife and kids I just tell them it is time to level their character so they can handle the next part of the adventure. Before now I pretended to give xp's. I think my last DM was the same way, but he was good enough at disguising it that I was never sure. Plus I doubt coyote6 would admit it since two of his current players visit these boards frequently. Besides, it doesn't reallly matter because the important thing is that the games were/are fun.

 

[Treebore]

Meant to also say that is why I like the xp pool idea of this thread. I hate that making magic items can get the item creators a level or two behind the party if they do it a lot. I understand why and how it "balances" things, so i like the pool and pool sharing idea so item creation is still limited by money and xp's, but the PC doesn't fall behind in levels, especially since they tend to make items for other party members, so why penalize them for giving the other players such advantages?

 

[Michael Silverbane]

I have another idea about the use of action points and their conversion to xp for spells and item crafting... Make it possible to convert all of them, that makes the paperwork less... But make action points converted by lower level characters worth less than those converted by higher level characters... Something like 100 or 200 xp per character level would probably do the trick. That way, you've got no separation or counting or whatever to keep track of, and you don't have the problem with low level characters getting an exhorbitant amount of xp for converting their action points.

There's really only two things to remember... How may action points they get... And how much they are worth.

Later
silver

 

[Piratecat]

Michael, that's trickier than it sounds, but I think less useful for what I envision. I want to make sure that all the PCs, even the spellcasters, have access to some action points solely to be used as action points. That seems more fun to me.


-- o --


This discussion has been tremendously useful. What I've ended up with is:

- No normal xp (PCs level when DM decides, which is usually pretty obvious.)

- PCs end up with 5 + 1/2 lvl Action Points per level. The 5 points are kept track of separately from the others. Action Points can be used as per the rules on the SRD; in general, an AP can be spent to add 1-6 points to a d20 roll or break the rules in some small, interesting way. I plan to be flexible with this, and if the PCs have other good ideas on the fly, that's fine. APs usually only apply to one die roll or one action.

- APs other than the 5 automatic ones can be turned in at 1000 xp/AP to form a XP pool. This pool can be used to power xp-draining spells, make magic items, and the like. In order to power such things, one character may donate his xp pool to another character at a conversion rate of 3 per 1. the two characters must be touching when this occurs. [Example: a fighter wishes to help the wizard cast wish. the wizard spends 4 APs for 4000 xp, the fighter spends 3 AP which converts to 1000 xp. The wish goes off.] The supporting character may donate all of the required XP if he has enough APs. Be aware that when making items, the item being made may reflect the supporting character in some way (more relevant for intelligent items, but anything is possible).

- At the end of a level, all remaining APs and xp pools disappear and are fully renewed. [Because I use training, this isn't a problem for item creators; they will tend to manufacture items right before training and going up a level. We'll still have more APs used in the last huge battle every level, but that's kind of neat.]

- PCs are responsible for tracking their own APs and XP pools from converted APs.

- If a PC dies and is raised, they suffer a negative level from the death until they complete a quest that is mandated by the God whose power raised them. There is no way to circumvent this negative level, other than using magic like true resurrection in the first place. The negative level has physical aand spiritual signs, and there may societal implications to having returned from the dead.

Okay, what did I miss?

 

[RangerWickett]

Okay, what did I miss?

Level draining undead?

I personally think 3 for 1 is too steep, since it means spellcasters just won't use action points, and they'll rely on other PCs to get them out of a jam, because in your system a mage's action points are effectively worth more than a non-spellcaster's.

Also, do PCs have to choose how many AP to convert to XP when they level, or can they wait until they're about to level again, then convert? What is the in-game logic of how NPCs create magic items and cast wishes; do NPCs get AP too, or do they get to use DM fiat?

 

[carpedavid]

I personally think 3 for 1 is too steep, since it means spellcasters just won't use action points, and they'll rely on other PCs to get them out of a jam, because in your system a mage's action points are effectively worth more than a non-spellcaster's.

I'd agree. I've actually been allowing PCs to donate XP to the item creation process on a 1-1 basis, primarily because all of those wands of cure serious wounds really benefit them more than the cleric. You still need the cleric or wizard around with the knowledge and the power and time to create those items, so allowing the PCs to donate XP in that way doesn't seem to me to skew things.