evilbob
Adventurer
Before I say anything else, let me preface this with: I've been around the block a few times, folks. I've interacted with many people in my life, and I can generally handle just about any situation, and I'm not looking for scant platitudes or trite comments: but I honestly have a player that is causing my game to sink, and I wanted to see if better GMs than I (or pysch majors, for that matter) might have a good word of solid advice on how to handle this situation. (Also, be forewarned: this post is rather long.)
First, lemme 'splain:
I GM a good group of folks that are all in one large family, basically (in-laws and siblings and such). It's a fun group that meets very rarely (2-3 times a year, typically) and we're often forced to play someone's character that can't make it that time (we're all older and have busy lives - kids, jobs, etc.). It's really a blast, but I have one player (oldest of us all, actually) that is a real beast to handle. It's a complex situation and hard to explain, but here's the best summary I can give: First off, he doesn't understand the rules completely, and by occasionally missing sessions he feels a little distanced from the game. (To be fair, he also has very little hand in leveling his character - but he also claims to prefer this.) He also looooooves to nitpick EVERYTHING - his general feeling is that he is very knowledgeable about a lot of real-world subjects (granted: this is quite true) and so he likes to describe in infinite detail the minutia of how his character performs certain actions (for example, tying ropes, setting traps, specifics of attacks, etc.). This leads us to Problem 1: when things don't always go the way he wants them to, he becomes agitated and wants to know why it didn't work when he clearly explained how it was all supposed to be done. This invariably leads to arguments as to why this piece of minutia didn't work when presented under these details. (And introducing concepts such as, "your character didn't know that this was effecting the situation" are counter-productive, because then he demands to know why that was left out of the initial description. I also have to put up with pouting - yes, pouting - about how he was not aware of the rules and further arguments about how it should actually work this way and why certain aspects of a FANTASY ROLE PLAYING GAME are stupid and unrealistic.) Also, to be fair, I'm typically hesitant to play the "BECAUSE THE GM SAID SO" card, and so this potentially adds to the issue.
Additionally, this player can also be a rather selfish person. This isn't really manifested in very obvious or simple ways, such as loot-hogging or stealing from players, but in very delicate ways, such as demanding to get his own way and then pouting or threatening to quit* under extreme circumstances. He's the kind of guy that if you present him with two amazing options and ask him to choose one, instead of thinking how lucky he is to be able to have a choice, he pouts about why he can't have both. His attitude is at best a major annoyance, and at worst a severe impediment to the enjoyment of this game by myself and others.
The main problem I am having here, however, is that most typical lines of defense cannot work in this situation. First, I cannot simply bar him from the game or ask him to quit. (Besides the fact that this is a sucky solution, he's family. C'mon. ...Oh, and in case this wasn't evident so far, he's not MY family, but the other players'. Another layer of stickiness.) Second, most forms of rational, sit-down communication with him don't accomplish much. I haven't tried everything, I'm sure, but the few things I've tried have not been very fruitful. (It is especially impossible during gaming sessions - when he wants issues to be resolved - because there is no such thing as a quick conversation with this guy. Trying to explain things to him while gaming causes a complete shutdown of the game for at least a few minutes, sometimes an hour+.) Due to his personality, he is also incapable of realizing that he is being a jerk, so asking him to stop also doesn't work. He believes all of his actions are completely justified.
Having said all that, here's the real problem: I've asked his family members how they typically deal with him, and they just usually let him spout off and have his way because in the end, they've come to understand, this is just easier. Fighting him gets nowhere, and at least if you concede you keep everything moving. ...Sadly, this attitude conflicts with the very core of my entire personality. When I see him acting like an ass, I tend to have the opposite reaction - I tend to try to make him see why he's wrong or to fight against letting the (as I see it, anyway) pouting child have his way. This only leads to more conflict, conflict.
So my question to the community is this: how can I appease this situation, please almost if not everyone, and at the same time not completely violate my own principles? So far the temporary solution I came up with is to somehow always schedule gaming sessions on days that he can't possibly make it, but this is really just a band-aid and by no means a fix. (Not to mention that it can't work much longer.) On the other hand, my personal enjoyment level - and that of some of the other players I've spoken with - goes WAY down during sessions at which he's present. I realize that because of the way he is, most of the change in this situation will need to come from me, but I just don't know how to go about doing this or what might work or has worked for others. Seriously: what can I do?
*I just had to share this one example: one time, VERY late and VERY tired (you know how it gets), we were in a situation where the "bad guy" was escaping from a building, and this player wanted to punch out one of the windows and chase him. It turned into a confusing argument about how many actions needed to be taken and what kind of movements were required, and before resolving it he just decided to run out of the building normally. Half the round later, another character took his idea and successfully smashed the window out and ran after the villain. This launched the player into a huge diatribe about the entire event and how he was being wronged (at no time did he simply ask to take his move back, which I would have gladly done at this point), and then he stood up, shouted, "I fall on my sword!" and left. And by left, I mean he went home.
When it was all over, my other players and I NPC'd his character and finished what turned out to be a pretty climactic battle against the main bad guy. (We still laugh about it today. ...Just not around him.)
First, lemme 'splain:
I GM a good group of folks that are all in one large family, basically (in-laws and siblings and such). It's a fun group that meets very rarely (2-3 times a year, typically) and we're often forced to play someone's character that can't make it that time (we're all older and have busy lives - kids, jobs, etc.). It's really a blast, but I have one player (oldest of us all, actually) that is a real beast to handle. It's a complex situation and hard to explain, but here's the best summary I can give: First off, he doesn't understand the rules completely, and by occasionally missing sessions he feels a little distanced from the game. (To be fair, he also has very little hand in leveling his character - but he also claims to prefer this.) He also looooooves to nitpick EVERYTHING - his general feeling is that he is very knowledgeable about a lot of real-world subjects (granted: this is quite true) and so he likes to describe in infinite detail the minutia of how his character performs certain actions (for example, tying ropes, setting traps, specifics of attacks, etc.). This leads us to Problem 1: when things don't always go the way he wants them to, he becomes agitated and wants to know why it didn't work when he clearly explained how it was all supposed to be done. This invariably leads to arguments as to why this piece of minutia didn't work when presented under these details. (And introducing concepts such as, "your character didn't know that this was effecting the situation" are counter-productive, because then he demands to know why that was left out of the initial description. I also have to put up with pouting - yes, pouting - about how he was not aware of the rules and further arguments about how it should actually work this way and why certain aspects of a FANTASY ROLE PLAYING GAME are stupid and unrealistic.) Also, to be fair, I'm typically hesitant to play the "BECAUSE THE GM SAID SO" card, and so this potentially adds to the issue.
Additionally, this player can also be a rather selfish person. This isn't really manifested in very obvious or simple ways, such as loot-hogging or stealing from players, but in very delicate ways, such as demanding to get his own way and then pouting or threatening to quit* under extreme circumstances. He's the kind of guy that if you present him with two amazing options and ask him to choose one, instead of thinking how lucky he is to be able to have a choice, he pouts about why he can't have both. His attitude is at best a major annoyance, and at worst a severe impediment to the enjoyment of this game by myself and others.
The main problem I am having here, however, is that most typical lines of defense cannot work in this situation. First, I cannot simply bar him from the game or ask him to quit. (Besides the fact that this is a sucky solution, he's family. C'mon. ...Oh, and in case this wasn't evident so far, he's not MY family, but the other players'. Another layer of stickiness.) Second, most forms of rational, sit-down communication with him don't accomplish much. I haven't tried everything, I'm sure, but the few things I've tried have not been very fruitful. (It is especially impossible during gaming sessions - when he wants issues to be resolved - because there is no such thing as a quick conversation with this guy. Trying to explain things to him while gaming causes a complete shutdown of the game for at least a few minutes, sometimes an hour+.) Due to his personality, he is also incapable of realizing that he is being a jerk, so asking him to stop also doesn't work. He believes all of his actions are completely justified.
Having said all that, here's the real problem: I've asked his family members how they typically deal with him, and they just usually let him spout off and have his way because in the end, they've come to understand, this is just easier. Fighting him gets nowhere, and at least if you concede you keep everything moving. ...Sadly, this attitude conflicts with the very core of my entire personality. When I see him acting like an ass, I tend to have the opposite reaction - I tend to try to make him see why he's wrong or to fight against letting the (as I see it, anyway) pouting child have his way. This only leads to more conflict, conflict.
So my question to the community is this: how can I appease this situation, please almost if not everyone, and at the same time not completely violate my own principles? So far the temporary solution I came up with is to somehow always schedule gaming sessions on days that he can't possibly make it, but this is really just a band-aid and by no means a fix. (Not to mention that it can't work much longer.) On the other hand, my personal enjoyment level - and that of some of the other players I've spoken with - goes WAY down during sessions at which he's present. I realize that because of the way he is, most of the change in this situation will need to come from me, but I just don't know how to go about doing this or what might work or has worked for others. Seriously: what can I do?
*I just had to share this one example: one time, VERY late and VERY tired (you know how it gets), we were in a situation where the "bad guy" was escaping from a building, and this player wanted to punch out one of the windows and chase him. It turned into a confusing argument about how many actions needed to be taken and what kind of movements were required, and before resolving it he just decided to run out of the building normally. Half the round later, another character took his idea and successfully smashed the window out and ran after the villain. This launched the player into a huge diatribe about the entire event and how he was being wronged (at no time did he simply ask to take his move back, which I would have gladly done at this point), and then he stood up, shouted, "I fall on my sword!" and left. And by left, I mean he went home.
When it was all over, my other players and I NPC'd his character and finished what turned out to be a pretty climactic battle against the main bad guy. (We still laugh about it today. ...Just not around him.)
You don't need him.
