Camels have what ECL? (Serious)

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

So my DM attacked my 2nd-level party with scorpions. We were on a caravan, pulled by a pair of camels. Only three players were present - a fighter, a rogue and myself, a ranger. I didn't have favored enemy (vermin) either.

The camels gave the rogue flanking opportunities (sneak attack), and even hit once with a bite attack because of the rogue's flanking.

We joked that the camels should gain XP, but we didn't know their ECL. Anyone know where we could find them?

I think animals should have listed ECLs, since awaken is a core spell, and it would help figuring out which animals are appropriate druid companions, in case you want to try a new animal.

On another note, I think camels shouldn't suffer -5 to hit - they've vicious.

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

In the dragon magazine that came out BEFORE savage species (which I don't own), they are listed as ECL 5

AR

 

[Limper]

Just looked them up... very odd since IRL they deliver nasty kicks as well as bites. Maybe the writer didn't know much about camels.

Using SS

+3 for HD

+1 for imbalanced stats (in its favor)

+1 for Natural armor (a complete rip)

Total of 5

Now since that seems pretty high concidering the abilities you can knock it down by 1 or so to make it more inline with how you think it should be... given the downsides of cameldom I think this is in order.

So I would give it a 4.

 

[Spatzimaus]

ECL 5 is a bit much. Let's try the Soldarin method:

Size (Large): +1.0
HD (3 Animal): +1.5
Speed (25% higher): +0.2
AC (Natural +1): +0.2
Physical stats (+8 STR, +6 DEX, +4 CON): +1.8
Mental stats (-8 INT, -6 CHA): -0.7
Reach (only 5'): -0.5
Scent: +0.2
Cannot use equipment: -1.0

TOTAL: +3.7

Of course, any way of Awakening them removes the INT and CHA penalty, so it becomes a clean ECL+4 race.

The natural attacks would normally cost something, but it's worse than a normal PC's unarmed attack.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Thanks guys! Looks like ECL +4 then.

 

[Spatzimaus]

Of course, it begs the question: while their stats may be appropriate for an ECL +4, who in their right mind would want to play one? I mean really, you have no hands, no cool movement modes, no real defenses (the Natural Armor just offsets the size penalty to AC), and no extended reach. The only redeeming factors: big physical bonuses, and Scent. Yippee. The +8 STR doesn't do you much good when you can't hold a weapon, for one thing. For another, camels should have a special ability for surviving in dry environments; right now, all they have is Endurance and a small CON boost. But even so, most people just don't get how difficult it is to play a race with no hands.

(Of course, I played a Giant Owl with Psion levels IMC; he was fun. Everyone called him "Tweety" and assumed he was the Ranger's animal companion, when in fact the Ranger was Tweety's cohort.)

 

[Gez]

Camels have a massive death attack. Since bite is their only attack, they add 1.5 times their Str bonus to damage, which is, well, overkill.

An average commoner, biten by a camel, is agonizing in unconsciousness, or dead.

 

[Spatzimaus]

Since bite is their only attack, they add 1.5 times their Str bonus to damage, which is, well, overkill.

Not in 3.5E. It's explicitly noted that they have no primary attack, and that their bite is treated as a secondary attack (-5 to hit, 1/2 STR bonus to damage, so it's only +0/1d4+2). For the 3E version, you're right, it's a pretty impressive attack.

Frankly, considering all of the camels I've met, they should have some sort of spit attack (ranged touch attack, target makes a Fort save or is Nauseated?).

 

[shilsen]

Not in 3.5E. It's explicitly noted that they have no primary attack, and that their bite is treated as a secondary attack (-5 to hit, 1/2 STR bonus to damage, so it's only +0/1d4+2). For the 3E version, you're right, it's a pretty impressive attack.

Obviously a rule written by someone never bitten by a camel. Hasn't happened to me, but I've seen someone who's going to spend the rest of his life having to explain how he was mauled by a camel

As for the spit attack, not just nauseating (which it is) but capable of temporarily blinding someone. There should also be a Fort save (to avoid being nauseated) for anyone riding a galloping camel for the first time.

 

[Spatzimaus]

How about we give them "Aura of Nausea": anyone within 5' of a moving camel (which would obviously include the rider and anyone it attacks) has to make a Fort save or be Nauseated as long as they remain within 5'; you only need to make one save attempt per exposure, no matter how many rounds.