D&D 5E Can 5e Be Mythic?

[Helpful NPC Thom]

I’ve been reading up on Heroes of Tara supplement that seeks to make a 5e game that is mythic in the vein of Irish mythology and folk lore, and I wonder just how mythical you can make a 5e game without a ton of new rules.

Has anyone here run a 5e game that hewed closer to folklore and mythology than D&D normally does?

Yes, but not without a lot of work from the GM's side. Mythic stories generally don't involve resting to recover hit points, Strength checks to scale walls, or close calls with a random encounter. Assuming the PCs are so competent as to succeed most of the time and describing the PCs' actions with appropriate embellishments works until it doesn't. Eventually, the GM and players are going to ram into the hard wall of the rules text because D&D's rules don't allow the game to be "mythic" in the same way they don't allow for a grim-and-gritty low fantasy game. You're fighting the system the whole way...so why not play Exalted, Godbound, Fate, or any other system that handles the genre better?

 

[dave2008]

Yes, but not without a lot of work from the GM's side. Mythic stories generally don't involve resting to recover hit points, Strength checks to scale walls, or close calls with a random encounter. Assuming the PCs are so competent as to succeed most of the time and describing the PCs' actions with appropriate embellishments works until it doesn't. Eventually, the GM and players are going to ram into the hard wall of the rules text because D&D's rules don't allow the game to be "mythic" in the same way they don't allow for a grim-and-gritty low fantasy game. You're fighting the system the whole way...so why not play Exalted, Godbound, Fate, or any other system that handles the genre better?

Default 5e is to only ask for check when there is a chance the PC will not succeed. So with regard to this all you do is raise the assumed baseline for success. It is almost not work at all for the DM.

 

[Neonchameleon]

I guess it depends whose folkbelief one is modeling.

The cultures whose folkbeliefs I am familiar with include high magic.

There's a difference between high magic and high spellcasting. To use a 5e example the Tasha's Rune Knight is pretty magical - but I'd find it far closer to what I'd expect than a 5e wizard throwing firebolts regularly and with a laundry list of spells.

 

[Yaarel]

There's a difference between high magic and high spellcasting. To use a 5e example the Tasha's Rune Knight is pretty magical - but I'd find it far closer to what I'd expect than a 5e wizard throwing firebolts regularly and with a laundry list of spells.

Yeah, wielding Fireballs and Lightningbolts routinely, feels more like modern artillery, and less like folkbelief magic. But the artillery is ok too as long as there is a presence of more narrative-affecting magic.



The designers have clarified:

Each "power source" (including psionic, primal, arcane, and divine) can:
• do magical effects that are spells
• do magical effects that arent spells
• do nonmagical effects that are created by magic (I think of the Create Water spell and the fire of dragonbreath).

There are magical effects that arent spells, such as certain class features.



For my setting, spontaneous magic is a central theme. Most of the magic is "psionic" in nature − meaning using the power of ones own mind. The psionic spells are "innate spellcasting", without components. But I do use verbal commands and chanting as a kind of spell focus, mechanically like a wand to apply the proficiency bonus. Moreover, the Arcana skills can spontaneously modify any of these spells as part of spell "stunts". So, even the spells feel less rigid, and more open-ended for player (and DM) creativity.

In addition, there are many examples of nonspell magic, mostly relating to "rituals", such as making a statue come to life, or so on.

 

[dave2008]

@doctorbadwolf , this may not be exactly what your looking for, but I saw this kickstarter and I thought of this thread: Wickerpunk, exploring where folk horror and heroic fantasy collide using

 

[doctorbadwolf]

@doctorbadwolf , this may not be exactly what your looking for, but I saw this kickstarter and I thought of this thread: Wickerpunk, exploring where folk horror and heroic fantasy collide using

Oooooooo!

Yeah! Hell yeah!

idk if it does what I am aiming for here or not but it looks fricken rad!

 

[Garthanos]

More fairy tale 5e content is always good. If anyone hasn't heard about it, check out Heroes of Tara!

I will have you seen Odyssey of the Dragonlords ... it has some intriguing elements including heros becoming revered/worshiped and the like. Fated quests including acquisition of appropriate personalized gear and so on.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I will have you seen Odyssey of the Dragonlords ... it has some intriguing elements including heros becoming revered/worshiped and the like. Fated quests including acquisition of appropriate personalized gear and so on.

I’ve heard a lot of good about it! I’ll probably check it out in the next few months, but my gaming budget is low for a while.

 

[Garthanos]

I’ve heard a lot of good about it! I’ll probably check it out in the next few months, but my gaming budget is low for a while.

It reads a bit like it was originally based on 4e and migrated

 

[Garthanos]

Since the days of Gilgamesh into King Arthur, the jock has tended to be the hero of the story, not the nerd.

Gilgamesh ran for days at full on velocity... (this from a direct translation of the story). Beowulf can fight for hours underwater without issue.

Ummm short rests? what are those?

"Can easily"? Can RAW? No, probably not, depending on class choice and such. @Neonchameleon has the right of it. Many of the classes are weighed down by mundane presentation or limitations. I mean, it takes a Cleric until 10th level simply to get special divine intervention from their diety--that's bread-and-butter mythic behavior, not something that should be hiding behind "wait until you're many levels in before you can even try, and fail (100-level)% of the time."

I agree there are many things RAW that you end up just over-riding.
I honestly do not feel the high level not magic types as they stand are even close to epic feel let alone mythic. Their prominent attributes are frozen at really low levels and are basically mundane. I feel this was a goal and not so easily overridden... and even in combat it shows
In 4e at level 5 many a fighter can with a rain of steel mow through hoards of minions with grace and style. Potentially making more attacks than the level 20 5e fighter does as long as he can get in reach of enemies ( a warlord to guide/enhance his maneuvering for instance comes in handy here). The 5e fighter would be overwhelmed.