D&D 5E Can 5e Be Mythic?

[Garthanos]

The rules don't tell you what you can or cannot do with skill checks. If the group agrees to a set of rulings for that campaign, that say that you can jump either your stated jump distance, and a distance equal to Str mod x Athletics check result in feet, then you can do that.

Tons and tons of these DM making up your own mechanics, aka rulings when I say this edition is a bunch of work that is an example. The rules give an extremely mundane baseline of 10 feet standing broad jump for a 20 strength you are fighting against the guidelines. And every D&D is too flashy in magic for Folklorish stories.

And after you override then do you notice the monk has a defined superleap you have to do hijinks with and there are spells that interact with distances and even baseline what distances you move normally and so on. Are you just going to quadruple all normal movement for everyone or what? Are you going to adjust spell ranges too. Does 5e really have zero positional benefits so none of it matters?

 

[Garthanos]

I have not run a game specifically based around folklore, but I believe our default setting isn't to far off. I have run some games based loosely on Greek & Norse style mythology, but not Irish mythology , which, despite my ancestry, I don't know to much about.

Celtic can be pretty over the top they had Cyborgs and death rays and the like.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Tons and tons of these DM making up your own mechanics, aka rulings when I say this edition is a bunch of work that is an example. The rules give an extremely mundane baseline of 10 feet standing broad jump for a 20 strength you are fighting against the guidelines. And every D&D is too flashy in magic for Folklorish stories.

And after you override then do you notice the monk has a defined superleap you have to do hijinks with and there are spells that interact with distances and even baseline what distances you move normally and so on. Are you just going to quadruple all normal movement for everyone or what? Are you going to adjust spell ranges too. Does 5e really have zero positional benefits so none of it matters.

This is a strength of 5e, not a weakness. The rules that suit epic folklore don’t suit small-scale folklore, much less heroic action fantasy.

If we say that an Athletics check increases your jump by feet equal to the check result, then monks train in Athletics and use Step of The Wind to leap across the damn map. Awesome!

In a more “grounded” game, you don’t use those rules and probably limit PC options to suit the genre and tone as well.

It’s great!

 

[Garthanos]

This is a strength of 5e, not a weakness. The rules that suit epic folklore don’t suit small-scale folklore, much less heroic action fantasy.

The way I see it the rules do not even support the scaling into epic heroic fantasy they purport to without requiring a lot of work.... its a missing component that has been sold as a strength

 

[Garthanos]

In a more “grounded” game, you don’t use those rules and probably limit PC options to suit the genre and tone as well.

It’s great!

In a a game that scaled properly with tiers there would already be a mechanic doing something instead of leaving martial types feeling like a local guy at a gym, and in an actual modular game that module or a couple variants would be easily selected at the outset.... neither exist.... except DM fix it.

 

[Garthanos]

In a more “grounded” game, you don’t use those rules and probably limit PC options to suit the genre and tone as well.

It’s great!

is D&D supposedly grounded now? To put it this way rules at level 1 to 4 are supposed to be that grounded game.... beyond that not so much.

 

[Garthanos]

More about combat not scaling. There is a scene in a certain mythic scale fantasy series where an enemy from leagues away who cannot even see the target by any obvious means, throws a spear (not his own personal one but rather that of an underling) and is able to attack someone near a hero, the hero senses the ballistic missile ... I mean spear and is able move into its path and deflect the attack. I picture an epic destiny demigod of the sun able to do things like launch that attack. And my 5e battlemaster character cannot even parry an attack against an adjacent ally without overriding the mechanics.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

The way I see it the rules do not even support the scaling into epic heroic fantasy they purport to without requiring a lot of work.... its a missing component that has been sold as a strength

I disagree completely on both points. 5e’s default mode is epic heroic fantasy and it does it well.

In a a game that scaled properly with tiers there would already be a mechanic doing something instead of leaving martial types feeling like a local guy at a gym, and in an actual modular game that module or a couple variants would be easily selected at the outset.... neither exist.... except DM fix it.

“Properly”? You mean how you prefer? Anyway they’re expanding the game pretty slowly, but they are expanding it. I do wish that Theros had included some optional rules for more epic non-magical stuff, though.

But the point, again, is that the game leaves room for customization while remaining the same game.

is D&D supposedly grounded now? To put it this way rules at level 1 to 4 are supposed to be that grounded game.... beyond that not so much.

D&D can be more or less grounded, which is what I spoke on.

 

[Garthanos]

I disagree completely on both points.

Yes I know

5e’s default mode is epic heroic fantasy and it does it well.

The starting point for martial types is bloody mundane and it progresses up to a blazing high end of almost matches olympic athletes and then stalls (just like your attributes being capped). Attributes being capped at mundane for martial types seems to basically mean everything you do is capped there.

“Properly”? You mean how you prefer? Anyway they’re expanding the game pretty slowly, but they are expanding it. I do wish that Theros had included some optional rules for more epic non-magical stuff, though.

But the point, again, is that the game leaves room for customization while remaining the same game.

D&D can be more or less grounded, which is what I spoke on.

Right even in 3e it took house rules to do that and that included squashing the spell casters high end ...as it sure looks at the effects of spell casting pretty damn epic baked in I agree but then I looks at the number of fighter attacks at 20th level and they can be matched by real world people. (real world archers for instance can make 4 shots in 6 seconds) Looks at the strength score and jumping distances with no built in scaling also matched and exceeded even by real world athletes. In my opinion they mostly squashed epic for martials.

Looks at the legacy of 1 man army abilities in early editions. From 1 attack per enemy low level enemy you can reach in AD&D to greater cleaves in D20 to rain of steel (and others in 4e) which are all superior to the 5e EPIC heroism alternate rule. (hmmmm maybe not so noticeable as it might be as good as the d20 rule)
The 4e abilities in this category have the support of "high level" minions being effectively enemies who were once analogous to even 4 levels higher than you (Like Ogres that you now outclass by advancing a tiers worth) and that never happens in 5e.

I disagree completely on both points. 5e’s default mode is epic heroic fantasy and it does it well.

“Properly”? You mean how you prefer?

It's definitely opinion indeed. We have 20 percentiles better on your skills from heroic to epic tier... with DM fiat the DCs to fix it feh. Martial types generally only have skills to get more utility and that means less and less impact outside of combat as spells get better in absolute ways, even if they have combat numbers balanced.

Anyway they’re expanding the game pretty slowly, but they are expanding it.

Some year they might support epic martial. I did start looking for options in the DMG its largely improvements for every class over all but worth noting in your quest for Mythic. Hero Points (an ok idea). The Epic Heroism rest variant not bad but also buffing casters too. Healing surges to somewhat support mid combat healing which can enable bigger battles.

I do wish that Theros had included some optional rules for more epic non-magical stuff, though.

Odyssey of the Dragonlords also focuses more on the story elements both give about a feat worth to everyone. Story elements are quite necessary. They might even influence a DM to decide those dcs based on someone other than the guy down the block.

 

[Garthanos]

OK instead of being such a disser.... here are some of the available rules for making 5e a bit more epic.

EPIC HEROISM
This variant uses a short rest of 5 minutes and a long rest of 1 hour.
This change makes combat more routine, since characters can easily recover
from every battle. You might want to make combat encounters more difficult
to compensate. Spellcasters using this system can afford to burn through spell
slots quickly, especially at higher levels. Consider allowing spellcasters to restore expended spell slots equal to only half their maximum spell slots (rounded down) at the end of a long rest, and to limit spell slots restored to 5th level or lower. Only a full 8-hour rest will allow a spellcaster
to restore all spell slots and to regain spell slots of 6th level or higher.

HERO POINTS
Hero points work well in epic fantasy and mythic campaigns in which the characters are meant to be more like superheroes than the average adventurer is.
With this option, a character starts with 5 hero point at 1st level. Each time the character gains a level, he or she loses any unspent hero points
and gains a new total equal to 5 + half the character's level.

HEALING SuRGES
This optional rule allows characters to heal up inthe thick of combat and works
well for parties that feature few or no characters with healing magic, or for
campaigns in which magical healing is rare. As an action, a character can use
a healing surge and spend up to half his or her Hit Dice. For each Hit Die spent
in this way, the player rolls the die and adds the character's Constitution modifier. The character regains hit points equal to the total.
The player can decide to spend an additional Hit Die after each roll.

CLEAVING THROUGH CREATURES
If your player characters regularly fight hordes of lower- level monsters, consider using this optional rule to help speed up such fights.
When a melee attack reduces an undamaged creature to 0 hit points, any excess damage from that attack might carry over to another creature nearby.
The attacker targets another creature within reach and, if the original attack
roll can hit it, applies any remaining damage to it. If that creature was
undamaged and is likewise reduced to 0 hit points, repeat this process,
carrying over the remaining damage until there are no valid targets, or
until the damage carried over fails to reduce an undamaged creature to 0 hit
points.

MINIONS and SWARMS
this is not an official one but something I have seen many DMs recommend and could combine with the previous and buffed individual attacks to support one man army profile.