Can a wizard use a wand with a cleric spell in it (and vice-versa)

[prospero63]

A question has come up in the game, and I'm not sure what the correct answer is. Take a wand of protection from evil. This is a spell that is on both wizard and cleric spell lists, however clearly either a wizard or a cleric spell was used for making the wand. Can either a wizard or a cleric use the wand, regardless of the spell that was used? The SRD states:

Wands use the spell trigger activation method, so casting a spell from a wand is usually a standard action that doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity. (If the spell being cast, however, has a longer casting time than 1 standard action, it takes that long to cast the spell from a wand.) To activate a wand, a character must hold it in hand (or whatever passes for a hand, for nonhumanoid creatures) and point it in the general direction of the target or area. A wand may be used while grappling or while swallowed whole.

This makes it clear that using a wand is a spell trigger. So that definition is:

Spell trigger activation is similar to spell completion, but it’s even simpler. No gestures or spell finishing is needed, just a special knowledge of spellcasting that an appropriate character would know, and a single word that must be spoken. Anyone with a spell on his or her spell list knows how to use a spell trigger item that stores that spell. (This is the case even for a character who can’t actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin.) The user must still determine what spell is stored in the item before she can activate it. Activating a spell trigger item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

So the question, IMO, is what does "anyone with a spell on his or her spell list" mean. I read it to mean that divine and arcane magic spells are two totally different spell lists. Yes, the same spell NAME might exist on both, but fundamentally they are not the same. A cleric casting protection from evil is not the same as a wizard casting it, even if the end results are identical. The cleric does not have the wizard variant on their spell list and vice-versa.

Has anyone else dealt with this in their games, and if so how did you handle it? TIA

 

[Corsair]

Hint: Scrolls are broken up into "arcane" and "divine" in the treasure section of the DMG. Wands are not.



You're making this overcomplicated. You've already quoted the applicable text.

"Anyone with a spell on his or her spell list knows how to use a spell trigger item that stores that spell."

So if I hand you a wand of dispel magic, you can use it if you are a sorcerer. It is on the sorcerer spell list. You can use it if you are a druid. It is on the druid spell list. You use it if you are a bard. It is on the bard spell list.

Compare this to a scroll. Scrolls have a multi-step activation process which wands do not. Note which part is missing from the spell completion activation part that you quoted.

• The spell must be of the correct type (arcane or divine). Arcane spellcasters (wizards, sorcerers, and bards) can only use scrolls containing arcane spells, and divine spellcasters (clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers) can only use scrolls containing divine spells. (The type of scroll a character creates is also determined by his or her class.)
• The user must have the spell on his or her class list.

As an aside, I find most rules questions come up when people try to include information that is not relevant to the discussion.

 

[Rackhir]

A question has come up in the game, and I'm not sure what the correct answer is. Take a wand of protection from evil. This is a spell that is on both wizard and cleric spell lists, however clearly either a wizard or a cleric spell was used for making the wand. Can either a wizard or a cleric use the wand, regardless of the spell that was used? The SRD states:


This makes it clear that using a wand is a spell trigger. So that definition is:


So the question, IMO, is what does "anyone with a spell on his or her spell list" mean. I read it to mean that divine and arcane magic spells are two totally different spell lists. Yes, the same spell NAME might exist on both, but fundamentally they are not the same. A cleric casting protection from evil is not the same as a wizard casting it, even if the end results are identical. The cleric does not have the wizard variant on their spell list and vice-versa.

Has anyone else dealt with this in their games, and if so how did you handle it? TIA

I would go by the Scroll example, since they are very similar. Wizards cannot use divine scrolls even if it is a spell on their list and vice versa. So I guess I would say no you can't.

That said, I don't really see the harm of letting them use it or the point of preventing it. We're not talking anything hugely powerful or disruptive.

 

[krupintupple]

+1 for Corsair.

it's a little hard to get around at first, but you'll note that scrolls are 'arcane' and 'divine', where wands are merely 'do you have this on your list?'

 

[irdeggman]

As others have pointed out wands are neither arcane nor divine - the only requirement is having the spell on your spell list. You don't even need to be able to cast it only have it on your list.

For example a 1st level Paladin can freely use a wand of cure light wounds becasue the spell is on his spell list even though he can't cast it yet.

Also a bard can use the same wand since CLW is on his spell list (even though he is an arcane caster).

In fact if a bard creates a scroll of CLW is it an arcane scroll and thus neither a wizard nor a cleric could use it without making a UMD check since it is an arcane CLW.

 

[Vegepygmy]

Has anyone else dealt with this in their games, and if so how did you handle it?

By the rules. Wands are spell trigger items. Spell trigger items are neither arcane nor divine. Anyone with that spell on his class spell list can trigger it (even if that person can't actually cast spells yet).

 

[Corsair]

I would go by the Scroll example, since they are very similar. Wizards cannot use divine scrolls even if it is a spell on their list and vice versa. So I guess I would say no you can't.

For future reference, you should only rule the same way when the rules are actually... you know... the same.

Helpful advice.

 

[Rackhir]

For future reference, you should only rule the same way when the rules are actually... you know... the same.

Helpful advice.

Yes, I can read what you posted at the same time I was posting. Thank you for making sure there was no chance I might not realize I had made a mistake. Is there any particular reason you feel the need to grind home this point?

 

[prospero63]

Yes, I can read what you posted at the same time I was posting. Thank you for making sure there was no chance I might not realize I had made a mistake. Is there any particular reason you feel the need to grind home this point?

Wait a second. Are y'all two of my players?!? (in reference to grinding home the point <g>).

 

[Jack Simth]

By the rules. Wands are spell trigger items. Spell trigger items are neither arcane nor divine. Anyone with that spell on his class spell list can trigger it (even if that person can't actually cast spells yet).

This also makes for some nifty side-effects; a Magic-Domain cleric-3's Wand of Identify is 4500 market (2nd level spell * caster level 3 * 750 base - the pearl infusion is an arcane component, and doesn't apply for a Cleric), while the Wizard's Wand of Identify is 5,750 gp market (1st spell level * caster level 1 * 750 base + 50 * 100 material component). The Cost to Create of the Wizard's Wand of Identify is 5,375 gp - more than it costs to buy the wand from the Magic-Domain cleric. And that's just Core. If you've got a Cloistered Cleric (who gets Identify as a 1st level spell), you can get a Wand of Identify for 750 gp market.

While the Cloistered Cleric's Wand of Identify is functionally identical to the Wizard's Wand of Identify, the price difference means that a Cloistered Cleric can make a killing....