Can Duskblades do this?

[NewJeffCT]

I was on another board over the weekend and somebody said the party duskblade - at 3rd level - was able to cast Blade of Blood and then Shocking Grasp on his sword and did an insane amount of damage 3d6 for Blade of Blood (if taking -5 hp of damage) + 3d6 for Shocking Grasp at 3rd level + 2d6 for having a Great Sword for a grand total of 8d6 damage, plus any Strength bonus the dusk blade had. The duskblade had not done any casting beforehand, so neither BoB not Shocking Grasp was held on the sword - it was all part of one round's action.

Now, I was under the impression that duskblades can do arcane channeling starting at 3rd level, but it was at 5th level they can do "quick cast" where a spell with a casting time of one standard action or less can be quick cast as a swift action - otherwise, it is a standard action. To me, the one standard action or less part implies that it is only at 5th level can they cast a spell onto their sword as a swift action, even if the spell has a casting time of one swift action like Blade of Blood.

So, can a duskblade do that at 3rd level, or was this player incorrect?

 

[jaelis]

Maybe I'm missing something, but why wouldn't he be able to cast blade of blood as ususal? You get both a swift action and a std action every turn. Use your swift action to cast BoB, and your standard action to channel shocking grasp as part of an attack. The BoB part doesn't involve any duskblade special abilities at all, does it?

 

[Nifft]

Looks fine to me.

Keep in mind that he can't do this indefinitely. If he misses, his shocking grasp remains (he "holds the charge" until he hits), but he cannot cast any other spells while "holding the charge", else the charge goes away. So he has to cast blade of blood before casting his channeled spell.

It's a risky strategy, but a strong payoff if he can hit.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Lopke_Quasath]

Cast Blade of Blood and then True Strike, then the next round attack with the channeled Shocking Grasp.

A guaranteed hit with solid damage (for 3rd lvl).

 

[NewJeffCT]

Looks fine to me.

Keep in mind that he can't do this indefinitely. If he misses, his shocking grasp remains (he "holds the charge" until he hits), but he cannot cast any other spells while "holding the charge", else the charge goes away. So he has to cast blade of blood before casting his channeled spell.

It's a risky strategy, but a strong payoff if he can hit.

Cheers, -- N

That is true, but a 3rd level duskblade can cast 4 spells per day... so, he could cast Blade of Blood & then Shocking Grasp in round one, take the 5 points of damage and do 8d6 with his greatsword, plus STR. Then, next round, he could do the same thing - 8d6. That is an average of 28 hit points of damage per round, not including any possible STR bonus... and, if the duskblade is wielding a greatsword, most likely they have a STR bonus. So, 30 or 31 points of damage per round at 3rd level? Imagine if it was a half-orc duskblade with a 20 strength - that would be 35 points of damage per round.

And, the duskblade Quick Cast rule states that starting at 5th level, they can cast spells with a casting time of one Standard Action or less as a swift action. Before that, it seems to me, that even casting a swift action spell for a duskblade requires a Standard Action.

 

[Nifft]

Now, I was under the impression that duskblades can do arcane channeling starting at 3rd level, but it was at 5th level they can do "quick cast" where a spell with a casting time of one standard action or less can be quick cast as a swift action - otherwise, it is a standard action. To me, the one standard action or less part implies that it is only at 5th level can they cast a spell onto their sword as a swift action, even if the spell has a casting time of one swift action like Blade of Blood.

Incorrect. Duskblades can effectively use Quicken for free a few times per day. This has no effect whatsoever on the casting time of spells which are normally cast as a Swift action.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Nifft]

That is true, but a 3rd level duskblade can cast 4 spells per day... so, he could cast Blade of Blood & then Shocking Grasp in round one, take the 5 points of damage and do 8d6 with his greatsword, plus STR. Then, next round, he could do the same thing - 8d6. That is an average of 28 hit points of damage per round, not including any possible STR bonus... and, if the duskblade is wielding a greatsword, most likely they have a STR bonus. So, 30 or 31 points of damage per round at 3rd level? Imagine if it was a half-orc duskblade with a 20 strength - that would be 35 points of damage per round.

Are you asking if this is legal per the rules, or if it's balanced?

Because it looks legal.

Cheers, -- N

 

[serow]

It's perfectly legal. Just in case you're not familiar, there are many spells outside of the PHB which have a casting time of swift (basically = automatically quickened), such as Blade of Blood.

 

[NewJeffCT]

It's perfectly legal. Just in case you're not familiar, there are many spells outside of the PHB which have a casting time of swift (basically = automatically quickened), such as Blade of Blood.

I understand that - however, why not say that in the rules? To me, when you say that at 5th level, once per day, a duskblade can quick cast a spell of one standard action or less casting time as a swift action, it implies that they cannot do that before 5th level, even if the spell has a casting time of one swift action.

If it only applied to spells that had a casting time of one standard action, they should have said that, as they could already do that at 3rd level for spells with a swift action for casting time.

 

[irdeggman]

I understand that - however, why not say that in the rules? To me, when you say that at 5th level, once per day, a duskblade can quick cast a spell of one standard action or less casting time as a swift action, it implies that they cannot do that before 5th level, even if the spell has a casting time of one swift action.

Right but he didn't have to quick cast the spell and hence didn't need to use the 5th level ability.

He cast a casting time - swift action spell and then did a standard action spell. Any spellcaster can do that in a single round. He is not cast BoB as a quick spell since it is already a swift action spell.

Basically he would gain no benefit whatsoever by quick casting a swift action spell - in fact he would lose an action in the process.