Can free actions be used as interrupts?
- Thread starter Piratecat
- Start date
Ryujin
Legend
So, your claim is that a triggered free action is slower than a non-triggered free action?
I don't have access to the rules compendium at the moment, but I'll stand by the statement until proven otherwise
If I recall correctly actions, that don't specify, are reactions. If an action specifically states that it can interrupt, then it can. That is why I made my statement regarding triggering the free (re)action based on the target entering a specific square.
Free actions are actually still a gigantic mess of rules pooh - even after the RC. Free actions can act like interrupts when required to function - generally on powers that act on your own turn like Wand of Accuracy and the Elven Reroll. On the other hand, they otherwise act like immediate reactions timing wise in most other situations.
Given the wording of the power, I would say this power is intended to function as an immediate reaction. Bearing in mind that immediate reactions can interrupt movement specifically (even after the RC).
Given the wording of the power, I would say this power is intended to function as an immediate reaction. Bearing in mind that immediate reactions can interrupt movement specifically (even after the RC).
Aulirophile
First Post
That rule only applies to triggered free actions... there is just as much text, even post-RC, for non-triggered free actions as there was before. I.e., none.
TarionzCousin
Second Most Angelic Devil Ever
Last edited:
AbdulAlhazred
Legend
No, it is on RC Page 197 and it is NOT specific to free actions. In fact it only mentions them as an example. It actually says that if an effect has a trigger but is not an immediate OR opportunity action, then it behaves with the same timing as an immediate reaction unless it MUST interrupt in order to function. It then uses a free action as an example. So there is no specific rule "free actions are reactions unless they have to be interrupts". In fact UNTRIGGERED free actions aren't mentioned by this rule at all.
Page 194 covers free actions. All it really says is they can be taken during any other creature's turn, and then states the "only one free action attack per turn" rule.
So, taken as a whole I don't see anything in the RC which indicates that untriggered free actions can happen AT ALL during another action. Now, we know that in pre-Essentials material there are free actions which must interrupt. Either the intention with Essentials was to make sure all of those powers DO have a trigger, or the rules are still a bit ambiguous there. Ultimately this question is one the DM really has to answer.
the Jester
Legend
I don't know if anyone has bothered to bring this up yet, but it is very clear that free actions can interrupt something that has already happened; witness variable resistance, elven accuracy, the halfling reroll ability.
keterys
First Post
It's no longer clear that variable resistance applies to the damage just taken, actually.
The other two clearly "interrupt" to function.
I'll poke some folks, since Force Push was I think why they made that rule change, and it's unfortunate if they "missed it", though I do think that intent is far more clear now, so attempts to Force Push "after the attack roll, before it hits" would get the stinkeye
The other two clearly "interrupt" to function.
I'll poke some folks, since Force Push was I think why they made that rule change, and it's unfortunate if they "missed it", though I do think that intent is far more clear now, so attempts to Force Push "after the attack roll, before it hits" would get the stinkeye
AbdulAlhazred
Legend
It's no longer clear that variable resistance applies to the damage just taken, actually.
The other two clearly "interrupt" to function.
I'll poke some folks, since Force Push was I think why they made that rule change, and it's unfortunate if they "missed it", though I do think that intent is far more clear now, so attempts to Force Push "after the attack roll, before it hits" would get the stinkeye
What rule change? As of RC untriggered free actions simply have no rules at all. They sort of had rules before, though they said nothing useful and the only way anyone has EVER known how any of them work is due to specific examples and FAQ entries for specific cases, plus the article on Wardens way back when where they clarified that they can mark in the middle of another action (which still didn't really clarify everything, but was close enough).
So if there WAS some conception that the RC was 'clarifying' things or providing a new specific rule whoever thought that was utterly deluded...
webrunner
First Post
If I may add everyone's information together:
So, Jimmy, you have a free action to use!
Yes sir, Mr. Rules!
First off, is this a free action attack?
If NO go to ABLE TO USE
Yup!
Have you used a Free Action attack this turn yet?
if NO go to ABLE TO USE
Yes, actually.
Sorry, Jimmy. You can only do that once a turn! END
ABLE TO USE
Well, Jimmy, is it a Triggered action?
If yes goto TRIGGERED else go to UNTRIGGERED
TRIGGERED
Why, sure it is, Mr. Rules!
Well then, if it were not an interrupt, could the power work at all?
If yes goto REACTION, else goto INTERRUPT
REACTION
It'd work just fine, but if I used it before it could negate-
Sorry, Jimmy. Your power goes at REACTION speed. END
INTERRUPT
I think not, Mr. Rules! If I don't I won't be able to re-roll the attack at all!
Well then Jimmy, you're in luck! It goes off at INTERRUPT speed! END
UNTRIGGERED
Nope, it just targets, or isn't even really a reactionary power!
Well then, judging by the ruling for Warden's ability as well as things like "Speak a few sentences", you can do it at any time! It doesn't turn back the clock like an Interrupt, but can happen in the middle of anything in the game, assuming there's actually a middle for it to happen in. You can do it in the middle of a move, while swinging your sword, or even while being pummelled by that troll! Of course, the rules are vauge on these points, and it could be true that you can only use the power on alternate thursdays, but there ain't no rule saying you have to, so if you want to use your free action to let a monkey play professional tennis in a horrible feel-good family film, then that's your choice.
Uh, you mentioned a troll?
Oh, don't worry about him. He's probably not that hungry. oh, wait, yes he is. See you later, Jimmy!
Wait, Mr. Rules I -.... um. So uh, Mr. Troll.. ... gulp. END
So, Jimmy, you have a free action to use!
Yes sir, Mr. Rules!
First off, is this a free action attack?
If NO go to ABLE TO USE
Yup!
Have you used a Free Action attack this turn yet?
if NO go to ABLE TO USE
Yes, actually.
Sorry, Jimmy. You can only do that once a turn! END
ABLE TO USE
Well, Jimmy, is it a Triggered action?
If yes goto TRIGGERED else go to UNTRIGGERED
TRIGGERED
Why, sure it is, Mr. Rules!
Well then, if it were not an interrupt, could the power work at all?
If yes goto REACTION, else goto INTERRUPT
REACTION
It'd work just fine, but if I used it before it could negate-
Sorry, Jimmy. Your power goes at REACTION speed. END
INTERRUPT
I think not, Mr. Rules! If I don't I won't be able to re-roll the attack at all!
Well then Jimmy, you're in luck! It goes off at INTERRUPT speed! END
UNTRIGGERED
Nope, it just targets, or isn't even really a reactionary power!
Well then, judging by the ruling for Warden's ability as well as things like "Speak a few sentences", you can do it at any time! It doesn't turn back the clock like an Interrupt, but can happen in the middle of anything in the game, assuming there's actually a middle for it to happen in. You can do it in the middle of a move, while swinging your sword, or even while being pummelled by that troll! Of course, the rules are vauge on these points, and it could be true that you can only use the power on alternate thursdays, but there ain't no rule saying you have to, so if you want to use your free action to let a monkey play professional tennis in a horrible feel-good family film, then that's your choice.
Uh, you mentioned a troll?
Oh, don't worry about him. He's probably not that hungry. oh, wait, yes he is. See you later, Jimmy!
Wait, Mr. Rules I -.... um. So uh, Mr. Troll.. ... gulp. END
