Can I use two shields at the same time?

[Rel]

After a total party kill last game session, we are starting over. I was considering a character who specialized in shield bashing.

My question is:

Can I use a shield in both my "on hand" and my "off hand" at the same time.

Obviously their AC bonuses would not stack. But it would remove the off hand penalty for shield bashing without requiring the Ambidexterity feat.

So, whaddya think?

 

[mikebr99]

If you used both on the defensive... I'd give you the effectiveness of a tower shield when weilding two smaller ones.

 

[dcollins]

Obviously their AC bonuses would not stack. But it would remove the off hand penalty for shield bashing without requiring the Ambidexterity feat.

You're right, the armor bonus would not stack.

There's nothing about the "off hand" rule on PH p. 106 ("You can bash an opponent with a shield, using it as an off-hand weapon.") which implies that you can avoid that penalty by switching hands. By my reading, the penalty is intrinsic to using a shield as a weapon.

 

[0-hr]

Shield Spikes: These spikes turn a shield into a martial
piercing weapon

You can use a martial piercing weapon in either hand. So I would infer you could do the same thing without the spikes (using the reduced damage of a normal shield "bash").

It also says, under Shield Bash

Used this way, the shield is a martial bludgeoning weapon. For
purposes of attack penalties, treat a shield as a light weapon.

If you can use a light bludgeoning weapon in your primary hand, then it seems you could use a shield the same way.

Makes me curious about using it "two handed" though. It's light for the purposes of penalties. I wonder if that means it is light for the purpose of bonues as well (ie. you can't apply 1.5 STR because it is light)?

 

[dcollins]

Sure, it's a light, martial bludgeoning (or piercing) weapon... with a special rule that says it is "as an off-hand weapon".

 

[Rel]

It seems odd to suggest that I can use a shield as a weapon, but only in the hand in which I am less proficient.

What if (for some unknown reason) I desired to wield a heavy mace in my off hand and a shield in my "on hand". Would you suggest, dcollins, that I should have an off hand penalty to both weapons? That would be a little wierd (then again, so is using a shield in both hands).

Since I usually agree with you, your opinion on this matter carries some weight with me. Which is not to discount the dissenting view of Ki Ryn or Mikebr99 (although, as a GM, I wouldn't let a player with 2 shields get the same effective AC bonus as a tower shield as you propose).

Is there some way in which this would be unbalancing?

 

[kreynolds]

Can I use a shield in both my "on hand" and my "off hand" at the same time.

I don't see why not.

Obviously their AC bonuses would not stack.

Correct.

But it would remove the off hand penalty for shield bashing without requiring the Ambidexterity feat.

If you only attack with one of the shields, you do not suffer the penalties for fighting with two weapons, since you are only fighting with one. If you attack with both shields, however, you don't get the AC bonus from either of them until your next action, and you suffer the full penalties for fighting with two light weapons.

 

[0-hr]

Sure, it's a light, martial bludgeoning (or piercing) weapon... with a special rule that says it is "as an off-hand weapon".

Well, either shield have some special, unique, yet unmentioned, exception to the rules that causes them to be "off hand" regardless of which hand you use them in - or the writer of page 106 just assumed that people will carry shields in their off hands.

It's up to you, and your DM, to decide.

 

[reapersaurus]

this has been brought up many times, and it is typically agreed that exactly what ki ryn just said - the writer just assumed you'd be using the shield in your off-hand.

You can use two shields, but if you're gonna attack with bot, then you'll need Ambi/TWF if you don't want penalties.

 

[Rel]

You can use two shields, but if you're gonna attack with bot, then you'll need Ambi/TWF if you don't want penalties.

If you don't want as many penalties. I'm pretty firmly in the camp that thinks two weapon fighting is stylish but somewhat underpowered compared to your other options (two handed weapons or sword & board).

What I'm thinking of is a human cleric who takes Power Attack and Improved Shield Bash at 1st level. I'll take Shield Charge at 3rd level. That means that if I'm buffed up with a Bull's Strength and if I shave off a couple points off my BAB and put them into damage, I can charge for around [1d6 (spiked shield) + 7 ] x 2 damage.

All of that I could do even if I just used a shield in my off hand like normal people. But I'd have to take a -4 to my shield bashes for using the off hand or else pick up the Ambidexterity feat. The other problem I started thinking of was that with -2 AC from the charge and the loss of use of my shield bonus to AC, I was looking at losing at least 4 points of AC when I executed a charge (which will hopefully be fairly often). If I use a shield in each hand, I can bash with the one in my primary hand and still retain the use of the other shield for the AC bonus.

Alternatively I was considering a similar character design but taking a level of Ranger and using a club and shield. I could use either on a standard attack or both as a full round action. Later I could cast Brambles on the club to increase its effectiveness. He would worship Elonha with the Plant (gotta love Entangle and Barkskin) and Sun domains and have Undead as his favored enemy. I like this idea as a character concept but after I stumbled onto the "double shield" idea I just had to ask the question.

So, any further comments or insights on these two character ideas?