D&D 5E Can you cast an Area Damage Spell if you are under the "Hopelessness" Symbol?

[Stalker0]

This just came up in the Vecna fight, so I'm curious on people's thoughts.

Here is the spell text for the portion of the symbol spell.

Hopelessness: Each target must make a Charisma saving throw. On a failed save, the target is overwhelmed with despair for 1 minute. During this time, it can't Attack or target any creature with harmful Abilities, Spells, or other magical Effects.


So its clear as a bell that I couldn't cast like a dominate person or something. But can I still use an area damage spell like a fireball?

 

[NotAYakk]

"Target" in 5e includes hitting something with a fireball. It isn't like 3e, where "target" was a keyword.

(You could probably cast a fireball you didn't know would hit a creature.)

 

[Stalker0]

"Target" in 5e includes hitting something with a fireball. It isn't like 3e, where "target" was a keyword.

(You could probably cast a fireball you didn't know would hit a creature.)

True, but in that case my target is a point in space, not a creature.

The relevant text:

Targets
A typical spell requires you to pick one or more targets to be affected by the spell’s magic. A spell’s description tells you whether the spell targets creatures, objects, or a point of origin for an area of effect (described below).

Unless a spell has a perceptible effect, a creature might not know it was targeted by a spell at all. An effect like crackling lightning is obvious, but a more subtle effect, such as an attempt to read a creature’s thoughts, typically goes unnoticed, unless a spell says otherwise.


Fireball

• Target: A point you choose within range

So at no point am I "targetting a creature"

 

[FarBeyondC]

True, but in that case my target is a point in space, not a creature.

The relevant text:

Targets
A typical spell requires you to pick one or more targets to be affected by the spell’s magic. A spell’s description tells you whether the spell targets creatures, objects, or a point of origin for an area of effect (described below).

Unless a spell has a perceptible effect, a creature might not know it was targeted by a spell at all. An effect like crackling lightning is obvious, but a more subtle effect, such as an attempt to read a creature’s thoughts, typically goes unnoticed, unless a spell says otherwise.


Fireball

• Target: A point you choose within range

So at no point am I "targetting a creature"

Adjudicating Areas of Effect on page 249~250 of the Dungeon Master's Guide seems to disagree with you.

 

[DND_Reborn]

From the other thread:

And here's one about dragon's breath:

Seems to imply that creatures in AoE are "targets", even if not "targeted".

Also:

When you choose a point in space for an AoE spell, that point becomes a "target" for the spell (of course, it is not a creature... hmm...).

So, my vote is definitely no to any AoE spell (or feature or magical effects) that is harmful.

This would also work against Vecna's Flight of the Damned IMO. It doesn't target creatures, but is a harmful magical effect.

 

[Rabulias]

But why would you even bother casting fireball? It won't work -- it's hopeless.

I would say you can't because you believe it has no hope of succeeding, so why bother trying?

 

[Ancalagon]

It would be very peculiar if an effect made you too hopeless to try to stab an enemy or cast magic missile at them, but totally on board with casting fireball...

 

[cbwjm]

I'd say that no, you can't cast it. It's sounds to me like someone trying to rules lawyer their way around the hopelessness spell effect to still be able to harm their enemies.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

So at no point am I "targetting a creature"

But... that's not true or you wouldn't be damaging them. Fireball says:

"A target takes 8d6 fire damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one."

 

[EzekielRaiden]

What about a spell like wall of fire?

It doesn't refer to creatures damaged by it as "targets" at any point, and you don't designate any creatures to be affected by it, neither by pointing a nasty thing at them nor by doing any other things. Creatures only take damage by standing inside the fire or standing up to 10' away from the side that deals damage.

Is wall of fire "targeting" a creature that walks into its damage area, or is it simply a persistent fire which, y'know, burns things which foolishly approach too close?