Can you Cleave after a Cup De' Grassey?

[Trainz]

Now explain dropping the orc ten feet to the north with your longspear, and using your Cleave attack to hit the orc ten feet to the south...

I don't. It doesn't make sense.

That's what I'm saying. That's my point exactly.

Just because something is technically possible by the rules, doesn't mean that you should throw common sense out the window and let it happen. I don't like to allow cleave with a piercing weapon, but I'm not SUCH a ball-buster DM, I let it go. Unless it is to run-through two critters that are lined-up, that would make more sense, but in that case the rules for reach don't help either.

cleave[size=-1]1[/size] (kl

v)
v. To split with or as if with a sharp instrument.

But hey, it's D&D, so... don't think about it too much. Just go by the feel and common sense.

 

[Hypersmurf]

cleave[size=-1]1[/size] (kl

v)
v. To split with or as if with a sharp instrument.

And then there's those players who expect to use the Deflect Arrows feat to block bolts, darts, and thrown daggers.

Damned munchkins need to buy a dictionary.

-Hyp.

 

[Trainz]

That's cute Hyp.

Seriously, do you understand my point ?

I'm just saying that it's obvious, without looking up the rules, that cleave and coup-de-grace don't mix.

Yes ? No ?

 

[Hypersmurf]

I'm just saying that it's obvious, without looking up the rules, that cleave and coup-de-grace don't mix.

I'm saying that since a/ the Cleave feat as written very definitely allows the Longspear Cleave, and since b/ your interpretation of "how Cleave obviously works" doesn't intuitively allow for the Longspear Cleave...

... that your view of how Cleave works is too narrow.

And that's why it's "obvious" to you that it can't work with a CDG.

Expand your view of Cleave so that it can account for slashing, bludgeoning, and piercing weapons...

... and so that it can account for dropping a creature at keypad-8 and cleaving a creature at keypad-2 with your axe, despite the fact that there are also opponents at 1, 4, 7, 3, 6 and 9...

... and so that it can account for hitting someone with 20 hit points and 19 non-lethal damage for a whole two points of damage with a dagger to Cleave into someone behind you when they fall unconscious...

...as well as the simple Big-Axe-Chop-Through-Him-and-into-You.

Once you can cinematically account for all of those, then tell me if it's obvious that Cleave and CDG don't go together.

-Hyp.

 

[Trainz]

Yeah. OK.

I agree. [Kenobi] From a certain point of view. [/Kenobi]

I do expand cinematic illustrations IMC. I do. A lot.

But leaning on that same cinematic principle...

Jorlis looked at the uncounscious ogre chieftain. Although fighting was still quite intense around him, he decided to finish him off for certain. He leaned over the ogre, taking his time to carefully aim the throat, and pierced it with his spear...

...the momentum was such that the spear ripped through the chieftain's jugular, and impaled the orc standing behind Jorlis. "That's one magic spear..." thought Jorlis.

It's not cinematic, it's just stupid.

BTW, on a totally unrelated subject, during tonight's game, I rolled a cure-critical wounds spell... all 4 8-siders came out 8's.

 

[Hypersmurf]

It's not cinematic, it's just stupid.

Adrenalin surge from the thrill of dispatching a foe lends speed to his limbs.

The shock of seeing his leader slain leaves the orc momentarily off-guard.

It's no more unusual than any other Cleave with a spear. The "through one and out the other side" doesn't work, so you need a different explanation for the mechanics of the feat.

-Hyp.

 

[Trainz]

Adrenalin surge from the thrill of dispatching a foe lends speed to his limbs.

The shock of seeing his leader slain leaves the orc momentarily off-guard.

Cleave doesn't take into account the mental disposition of a target. Still doesn't make sense.

You know what, I'm sure we could debate this for the next 200 replies... neither of us is really bringing any new data to the concept, we're just looking at the same sculpture with different angles all the time...

And I don't live in New Zealand, I live in Montreal, EST, 1h42 in the morn, I'm off to bed.

By the way, I saw a New Zealand flick yesterday: Whale Rider. Totally impressed me. Add LoTR to that, and I'm liking New Zealand more and more each day.

 

[Hypersmurf]

And I don't live in New Zealand...

You've got us in your name, though

By the way, I saw a New Zealand flick yesterday: Whale Rider.

I've heard it's doing well overseas...

I haven't actually seen it, myself

-Hyp.

 

[Bismark]

Adrenalin surge from the thrill of dispatching a foe lends speed to his limbs.

The shock of seeing his leader slain leaves the orc momentarily off-guard.

It's no more unusual than any other Cleave with a spear. The "through one and out the other side" doesn't work, so you need a different explanation for the mechanics of the feat.

-Hyp.

What the Smurf is saying, is that just cause you assume Cleave means the power of your swing continues the same swing onwards to hit the next guy, don't necessarily make it so.

 

[KarinsDad]

Ahhhh.

Plain language.

Not technical terms.

So throw out the glossary definition of "melee attack"; it's not relevant.

-Hyp.

Ahhhh.

The plain language of the book is not allowed.

The glossary definition is not a technical term.

hehehe

This just keeps getting better.

We will throw out those sentences that do not match our point of view and only keep the ones that do.

Uh huh!

Sorry Hyp. You do not get to pick which sentences are allowed and which are not in a rules discussion. All sentences from the books are allowed. That doesn't mean that there cannot be disagreement with different sentences which in turn requires adjudication, but you cannot make inferences on some sentences and totally throw out others.

Remember, this is the same plain language that illustrates that you cannot Cleave after doing a Fireball attack with your staff. Or, do you allow that? Can't have your cake and eat it too Hyp.