Can you Quickdraw in the middle of an Attack?

[Camarath]

The definition we're using is definition #4 (a), "occurring, acting, or accomplished without loss or interval of time." In other words, right now. (listed synonym: Instant)

Next time you try to make an argument by quoting verbatim from the dictionary, please try to read the entire listing and choose the definition that makes sense. This is just ridiculous.

Sorry about that I missed definition 4a definition that does seem more apporate to this case (in fact all of the definitions under 4 seem better the definition I chose). I am sorry about and very embarrassed because of my blunder.

I still do not see why in an abstract combat system an immediate extra attack can not happen if interrupted by another immediate extra attack but can be interrupted by an immediate AoO.

 

[Camarath]

(he, he, I gotta write me up some stats on that half-clay golem tarrasque, ...)

Make sure you use 3.0 rules set because in 3.5 creautres without constitution scores can not have Regeneration.

 

[Camarath]

Your real fun at parties. I can tell.

 

[Hypersmurf]

... then since Great Cleave doesn't SPECIFICALLY say you can't use a different weapon, you can!

Uh, Great Cleave does.

"This feat works like Cleave, except..."

-Hyp.

 

[Coredump]

I am pursuing this line of argument not because I believe anyone should play this way but because it seems to me that the rules as written might actually give you two parallel abilities. If hearing me say "I am wrong and no one should ever play this way" will assuage peoples' psyches I will say that now (although I think I kind of already said this in post #4). I am debating this point because I like to debate about literal meaning of rules. I am not trying to offened or disturb anyone and I am sorry if I have done so. (see disclaimer below)

Oh heck no. I have no qualms with what you are doing. Debating minutia is what this forum is all about. Even if we would never play this way. I was specifically commenting on one persons apparent inability to take part in the discussion without being rude and condescending. (and it is a recurring trait for this poster.)

Please, by all means, carry on.... even if you are wrong.

 

[Jhulae]

Why would the abilities of other creatures be able to interrupt immediate game effects if the creatures own abilities can not do so? Immediate game effects can either be interrupted by other immediate game effects or they can not. The attacks from Cleave and Great Cleave are immediate game effects as are AoO. So why can AoO immediate game effects interrupt the immediate game effect of Cleave while the immediate game effect of Great Cleave is negated by the immediate game effect of Cleave?

Assuming the threatener didn't already hit the whip wielder with an AoO, and the threatener has combat reflexes...

The Whip wielder makes a 'cleave worthy' attack and gets his immediate attack ready for the threatener.. The whip is coming around.. The threatener, who wonders why the whip wielder didn't learn something seconds before about that swinging that thing, hits the whip wielder with an AoO.. The whip attack now strikes the threatener, who succumbs under his wounds. (That'll teach the threatener to not run from a fighter obviously badass enough to be using only a flaming whip..)

That's how easy it is to justify an immediate AoO happening before an immediate cleave. Note that the example cannot justify the whip wielder saying "I'm going to attack you immediately! And you too!", because that's just as impossible as it is think about attacking two different targets immediately with a single weapon. (Even as fast as the brain is, the instant you think about attacking, it's on only one target at a time.)

 

[Camarath]

Note that the example cannot justify the whip wielder saying "I'm going to attack you immediately! And you too!", because that's just as impossible as it is think about attacking two different targets immediately with a single weapon. (Even as fast as the brain is, the instant you think about attacking, it's on only one target at a time.)

It is only impossible if you assume one attack equals one swing. However I have been told many time that an attack in not one swing of a weapon but instead represents the amalgamate of many separate swings, thursts, blows, blocks and parries. If this is so I see no reason why a character could not use the shudden shift in battle that comes from one of his opponents being removed from the fight to launch assault (made up of multiple swings against each opponent) on two of his other foes.

 

[Elvinis75]

Cleave + Great Cleave = one attack with possibility of more

For example, can I use Cleave to get extra attacks if a Whirlwind Attack kills one of my targets?

You can use Cleave only once a round. If you have the Great Cleave feat, however, you can cleave each time you drop an opponent, even when the opponent drops in a Whirlwind Attack. (When a foe drops, resolve the extra cleave attack before finishing the rest of the attack rolls in the Whirlwind Attacks.)

Do you have to use the full attack action to get the benefits of the Cleave or Great Cleave feats?
I’d say so, since you have to use the full attack action to get more than one attack.
No, you don’t have to use the full attack action to get the benefit of either one of these feats. If you have either or both of the feats, you get an extra attack (or possibly extra attacks with Great Cleave) whenever you drop a foe, no matter what type of action you used to drop the foe.


It seems clear to me with the above quotes from the FAQ that Great Cleave is a replacement/enhancement effect for cleave.

The first line says that cleave is once per round and think that we are all in agreement on that. The second line tells you that you can “cleave” each time you drop an opponent. One could try to argue this saying that it doesn’t say that you don’t lose the Cleave ability and that is where the second question comes in. It states that if you have either or both of the feats you “an” extra attack (Please read singular!!!) then it goes on to say “or possibly extra attacks with Great Cleave (Please read multiple!!!) whenever you drop a foe”. If both Great Cleave and Cleave trigger as you say that they do then there would an automatic two attacks and thus not “an extra attack”. The statement either or both is the defining statement here. The FAQ says that there is no difference between having one or both in getting “an extra attack”.

 

[mikebr99]

For example, can I use Cleave to get extra attacks if a Whirlwind Attack kills one of my targets?

<snip>

You might want to use the "quotes" tag around stuff you are posting from other sources, like the FAQ... I was just about to answer the above.


Mike

 

[Camarath]

The first line says that cleave is once per round and think that we are all in agreement on that. The second line tells you that you can “cleave” each time you drop an opponent. One could try to argue this saying that it doesn’t say that you don’t lose the Cleave ability and that is where the second question comes in. It states that if you have either or both of the feats you “an” extra attack (Please read singular!!!) then it goes on to say “or possibly extra attacks with Great Cleave (Please read multiple!!!) whenever you drop a foe”. If both Great Cleave and Cleave trigger as you say that they do then there would an automatic two attacks and thus not “an extra attack”. The statement either or both is the defining statement here. The FAQ says that there is no difference between having one or both in getting “an extra attack”.

Let me put for an alternate reading of the sentece upon which you argument hinges (a tenuous reading one but perhaps a valid one none the less).

The sentence says you get an extra attack or possibly extra attacks with Great Cleave when you whenever you drop a foe. You assume the "or possibly extra attacks with Great Cleave" referes to subsequent droppings of other foes but the sentence does not address such later happening only what happens when you drop one foe. Thus the sentence could be read to say that both abilities grant you an extra attack whenever you drop a foe and further more that you might gain more than one attack if you have Great Cleave on this dropping of the one foe (based on I assume if you had used Cleave before in that round).