Can you retrain class features? Would doing so be unbalancing?

[Pielorinho]

As I read it, you can retrain one of three things: a power, a feat, or a skill. Nothing else is retrainable.

However, it seems likely to me that players would want to retrain class features sometimes. A brutal scoundrel rogue might decide to try out the finesse route, going artful dodger. A wand-mastery wizard might start relying on her orb more often and want to master it instead.

I don't think the rules let you do so. Am I missing something?

If not, are there any balance implications to allowing it? (It does seem to me that from an optimization standpoint, this would be pretty rare, since different class features highlight different ability arrays. It'd mostly be useful for players who aren't consummate optimizers).

Daniel

 

[fba827]

Are you missing something? no
Would it be unbalancing? possibly or possibly not
Would it cause disruption? probably
would i personally allow that in my games? no

the build options mainly are there for focus of direction for the pc. some also have built-in mechanics (like warlock builds, ranger builds, wizard implements, etc)

as you said, ability scores wouldn't change so the pc wouldn't be "optimized" for the new role. but it does add some unintended party chaos. different builds have different tactical strengths (a two-weapon ranger vs. an archer ranger; or the various implement wizards, etc). so as the party is learning to work tactically together, one of them would be changing which basically screws up any unconcious (or concious) teamwork they were doing.

it may also end up with some wierd situations where you got some powers that work (or work better) under one build option but now you're the other build option so some of your powers wouldn't work at all (or be severly gimped). Would you also be letting them swap out powers that no longer work for them at the same time as changing builds? If so, they are changing 2 or more things at one time.

also (this is pure personal opinion at this point) some of those build changes are drastic, changing the 'tone' of the character. at what point does the character stop being the same (other than the name at the top of the character sheet).


having said all that, if you and your players are okay with that, then, really, no "harm" would be done.

 

[Verision]

It would only really be an issue with the Warlock, as far as I can tell, since the Warlock makes pacts. It'd be pretty weird for a Warlock to 'retrain' his pact, especially from a roleplaying point of view.

 

[Pielorinho]

Yeah, some of them would definitely be harder to explain than others. The wizard's retraining would make the most sense (and be the most likely: a wand-wizard who comes across a fantastic staff might well decide to retrain, and any wizard might decide to retrain to orb at higher levels). The warlock's would be hard to accomplish, since it's linked to powers, and would require a specific roleplaying explanation akin to old edition's need for clerics to do something noteworthy to switch deities.

Daniel

 

[Jarrod]

I wouldn't have a problem with it if the player wasn't familiar with the system. I've found that often, particularly with non-rules-grokking players, that they have a concept and simply make poor choices. In this case I let them respec the character once they've played a bit and can say "You know? I tried this, but it's simply not my thing."

Though in that case it's less "retrain" and more "this is the way it always was". I've found it's a good way to allow someone to fit their character to both the direction the campaign is going (good ol' "favored enemy") and how the rules work.

 

[Nifft]

It makes very little sense from any in-game perspective I can imagine, but for the first year or so, I'd totally allow it. It's a new game, and I hate punishing people for their decisions while their still learning what those decisions mean.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Pielorinho]

I'm not sure that retraining from tactical warlord to inspiring warlord makes any less sense than retraining from knowledge (Nature) to athletics does .

Daniel

 

[Anthony Jackson]

It would only really be an issue with the Warlock, as far as I can tell, since the Warlock makes pacts. It'd be pretty weird for a Warlock to 'retrain' his pact, especially from a roleplaying point of view.

Not really. "I break my pact and create a pact with a new entity".

 

[Verision]

Not really. "I break my pact and create a pact with a new entity".

And what is/are the consequence(s) of breaking your pact?

And don't many/most of the Warlock powers have some link to your pact? Wouldn't you have to retrain many of your powers?

 

[FadedC]

Rather then allowing players to retrain it via the retraining rules, it might be more reasonable to just handle it as the DM on a case per case basis if somebody doesn't like the class choices they made. As somebody else said, the game is new and letting people correct their mistakes or change their mind is never a bad thing. But letting somebody correct a mistake doesn't need to be the same thing as letting somebody freely switch every time they level up.