Can you teach someone not to (bad) metagame - (or at least not be rude)

[DonTadow]

How do you get someone not to metagame?

I have a player whom has a big problem with metagaming. I've spoken to him about it on three occassions and he still does it, with this last session being the worst. He consistantly talked during others initiatives and always asks to roll knowledge checks to get metagame knowledge.

I have explained to him the style of the game, asked him to stop, told him what the metagame offenses are, even pointed him to the table rules we have in our primer. He says he just can't help it and it appears to be a compulsion.

I know what you're thinking, kick the player, but this guy is such a nice guy I'm convinced there's something I can do to help him out with this. Plus he's a good rpger. However, with the execption of the friend who brought him in, he's beginning to annoy the players. I've gotten emails in the last weeks from everyone, even the quiety player, commenting about his metagaming. Since I basically just deny his requests and move on, it hasn't annoyed me as much until now (because one of the players annoyed is my spouse).

In his heart, I can tell this guy is just a really good guy. So i'm convinced that there is something I can do as a DM to help him. Could you recommend any tips, books experiences you had.

 

[Felon]

By using words like "teach" and "help", you are presupposing that his way of playing the game is incorrect, that he can be "taught" and "helped" to play the right way. Put yourself in your players shoes. When he is apologizing, a part of him might be wishing you'd cut him a little slack and let him enjoy the game in his own way.

 

[Crothian]

How do you get someone not to metagame?

Point it out to him in game and make sure he recognizes the behavior for what it is. I've had players that do this, and I just tell them no they can't make the roll. I assume you are telling him no as well, is that causing problems or does he let it drop after that?

 

[sniffles]

Sounds like in this case you just have to be patient with his annoying personality trait and keep repeating yourself.

If he talks during other players' turns, remind him that his character isn't present and he isn't allowed to say anything.

Or institute a "if you said it your character said it" rule, if he's making out-of-game comments. The first time he makes a smart-assed out-of-character remark and you take it seriously and have the NPC react to it, he'll probably get the idea.

When he tries to make knowledge checks for knowledge his character shouldn't have access to, let him roll but make the DC impossibly high. Or just tell him no.

I think most players do this kind of thing at least occasionally. It's hard not to want to help out or get involved in all of the action. I don't think this type of behavior is really that bad, unless the player in question is making really rude comments or trying to hog the spotlight.

But if it's driving the other players crazy, you may want to consider giving him a really stern warning that he needs to cut it out or he's out. Anyone can change if they try. Claiming it's a 'compulsion' is no excuse.

 

[Particle_Man]

Make him the DM for a while.

 

[Aaron L]

No, Don, I'm afraid I'm thinking the player should kick the DM. By using words like "teach" and "help", you are presupposing that his way of playing the game is incorrect, that he can be "taught" and "helped" to play the right way (vaguely reminiscent of how good-intentioned Christians try to think of ways teach homosexuals how to be straight). I'll bet that when your player is apologizing, a part of him is wishing you'd cut him some slack and let him enjoy the game in his own way.

In a game with people trying to seriously roleplay, having one person constantly metagaming is quite distracting and annoying to everyone else. He isn't going out of his way to tell someone in some other group how to play, he is trying to get someone who wants to play in his group to fit in with the rest of them so that he doesn't ruin the game for them.

 

[DonTadow]

No, Don, I'm afraid I'm thinking the player should kick the DM. By using words like "teach" and "help", you are presupposing that his way of playing the game is incorrect, that he can be "taught" and "helped" to play the right way (vaguely reminiscent of how good-intentioned Christians try to think of ways teach homosexuals how to be straight). I'll bet that when your player is apologizing, a part of him is wishing you'd cut him some slack and let him enjoy the game in his own way.

Yes, I am hoping he plays the game the right way. Like any game, there are rules and one of the rules is no metagaming. Thats in the 3.5 DMG book by the way. So what i want him to do is teach him how to follow the 3.5 rules.

Self edited for snidness limit .

Look, if you are a proponent of metagaming, this is probably not the thread for you.

 

[Felon]

In a game with people trying to seriously roleplay, having one person constantly metagaming is quite distracting and annoying to everyone else. He isn't going out of his way to tell someone in some other group how to play, he is trying to get someone who wants to play in his group to fit in with the rest of them so that he doesn't ruin the game for them.

I guess it would help if we could hear some specifics about what this guy is supposedly doing wrong. All we've got now is that he talks during other players' initiatives, and that he tries to use knowledge skills to his advantage. Both of those elicit a response of "so what" from me. Is he overbearing, does he interrupt other folks while they're trying to talk? That's a different problem from metagaming.

 

[DonTadow]

Point it out to him in game and make sure he recognizes the behavior for what it is. I've had players that do this, and I just tell them no they can't make the roll. I assume you are telling him no as well, is that causing problems or does he let it drop after that?

Which is what i've been doing, and it is mildly annoying to me. However, I have 5 other players. I've received an email from 3 of them asking me to get him to stop. One of the emails was really scathing and i can see how it was taking away from the players enjoyment.

 

[Felon]

Yes, I am hoping he plays the game the right way. Like any game, there are rules and one of the rules is no metagaming. Thats in the 3.5 DMG book by the way. So what i want him to do is teach him how to follow the 3.5 rules.

Not quite. You're trying to get him to follow some advice that the DMG hands out, not a rule that it imposes.