Can you trip someone standing up?

[Ottergame]

Aparently by the rules, No on all those.

Page 137 in the PHB. "An attack of opportunity "interrupts" the normal flow of actions in the round. If an attack of opportunity is provoked, immeadtly resolve the attack of opportunity, then continue with the next character's turn (or complete the current turn, if the attack of opportunity was provoked in the midst of a characters turn)."

You might have a different way of understanding that then I do, but to mean that says if the AoO is successful, the action that provoked it is prevented.

 

[DrSpunj]

I apologize for the small sidetrack here, but does anyone have any problems with the prone character using Tumble and a Move Action to maneuver into a non-threatened square, and then stand up with their other Move Action?

Wouldn't that allow you avoid all AoOs (assuming you beat the Tumble check, of course) and stand up in the same round?

Thanks.

DrSpunj

 

[Korak]

recursive tripping is loophole that you have to interpret the rules to allow.

Ok, now you're acting like the prone opponent is forced to stand up, will automatically fail all his opposed rolls, and is facing a tripper with combat reflexes with no need to expend his AOOs on other targets.

The only action you can't take while prone is attacking with a ranged weapon... which you shouldn't be doing in melee combat anyway. Do all your humanoids fight solo. It's not too hard to swarm a tripping character. Be creative with your combat tactics. Try grappling him, you can't trip when you are grappled. Have your humanoid NPCs bring along dwarf friends with reach weapons (+4 to resist the trip an equal reach), or some spring attacking barbarians (no need to stay in the threatened area to be tripped), or some disarm/sunder specialists with adamantine glaives (break/disarm his tripping weapon), or summon large quadrupeds (high strength, size bonus, stability bonus), or cast hold person/rainbow pattern/etc/etc (duh..), or 100 other options.

Yes, one of the many characters I have played was trip spec'd. If anything, that has just shown me how many ways there are to subvert tripping, and how often it is not usable.

I just don't see tripping as the uberpoonyourenemies that some folks do. Especially not when there are mechanics out there like stunning fist/freeze the lifeblood and the three mountains style.

But, it seems like we are on opposite sides of the issue and are not likely to come together until the emergence of official errata on the issue (sage doesn't count in my book).

 

[James McMurray]

If someone tries to grapple you, and you hit them and do damage, do they get to continue their grapple?

No, because the rules specifically state that the grapple atttempt is thwarted. Nothing of the sort is said about standing up from prone.

"or complete the current turn, if the attack of opportunity was provoked in the midst of a characters turn"

How does that translate into "negate the action that caused the AoO"?

If that is what was meant (and its a major leap to think that it is), they wouldn't have had to specify in so many places that some actions are cancelled by AoOs (disarm and grapple for example).

 

[Camarath]

You might have a different way of understanding that then I do, but to mean that says if the AoO is successful, the action that provoked it is prevented.

I think the Concentration rules may support your view.

CONCENTRATION (CON)
Check: You must make a Concentration check whenever you might potentially be distracted (by taking damage, by harsh weather, and so on) while engaged in some action that requires your full attention. Such actions include casting a spell, concentrating on an active spell, directing a spell, using a spell-like ability, or using a skill that would provoke an attack of opportunity. In general, if an action wouldn’t normally provoke an attack of opportunity, you need not make a Concentration check to avoid being distracted.
If the Concentration check succeeds, you may continue with the action as normal. If the check fails, the action automatically fails and is wasted. If you were in the process of casting a spell, the spell is lost. If you were concentrating on an active spell, the spell ends as if you had ceased concentrating on it. If you were directing a spell, the direction fails but the spell remains active. If you were using a spell-like ability, that use of the ability is lost. A skill use also fails, and in some cases a failed skill check may have other ramifications as well.
The table below summarizes various types of distractions that cause you to make a Concentration check. If the distraction occurs while you are trying to cast a spell, you must add the level of the spell you are trying to cast to the appropriate Concentration DC. If more than one type of distraction is present, make a check for each one; any failed Concentration check indicates that the task is not completed.

Concentration DC /Distraction
10 + damage dealt /Damaged during the action.2

....2 Such as during the casting of a spell with a casting time of 1 round or more, or the execution of an activity that takes more than a single full-round action (such as Disable Device). Also, damage stemming from an attack of opportunity or readied attack made in response to the spell being cast (for spells with a casting time of 1 action) or the action being taken (for activities requiring no more than a full-round action).

 

[Camarath]

Of couse it is possible that the Concentration rules only apply to casting a spell, concentrating on an active spell, directing a spell, using a spell-like ability, or using a skill that would provoke an attack of opportunity and do not apply to other action which provoke AoO in case they are irrelevant here.

 

[James McMurray]

Ok, now you're acting like the prone opponent is forced to stand up, will automatically fail all his opposed rolls, and is facing a tripper with combat reflexes with no need to expend his AOOs on other targets.

He's forced to stand up if he wants to fight effectively.

If he's up against someone who is built to abuse this rules loophole, he will always fail his opposed rolls, and he will be facing someone with combat reflexes.

Ask my players, I'm creative as hell. But I shouldn't have to find different ways to work around what is obviously an unbalanced interpretation of an ambiguous rule.

But, it seems like we are on opposite sides of the issue and are not likely to come together until the emergence of official errata on the issue (sage doesn't count in my book).

Works for me. Of course, if you don't accept the Sage as official, what do you accept? Unfortunately, he's the doorway that all erratta and FAQs pass though.

 

[Ottergame]

I think the Concentration rules may support your view.

So it does. It looks like concentration has a whole new level of value in light of this.

 

[jessemock]

When resolving the AoO, what situational modifiers apply? AKA, is the guy standing up drawing down those prone bonuses?

 

[Ottergame]

It'd seem pretty obvious to me that he's still prone untill he finishes standing up. +4 to be hit in melee.