D&D 5E Can you twin booming blade

[Salthorae]

when twin spelling you dont get to use an additional action

Twinned Spell directly breaks the action economy. Booming Blade lets you attack as part of the casting.

D&D Rules base assumption is explicit trumps general. Twin Spell and Booming Blade are two examples of explicit trumping the general of action economy.

This isn't hard.

 

[Ashrym]

Twin removes the second "cast a spell" action normally used to cast the spell a second time. This includes the attack made as part of that action. This isn't that complicated.

I would argue green-flame blade can also be twinned because there is only one target. The secondary damage is a secondary effect after the target gets hit by the weapon attack and not actually two targets like acid splash.

"On a hit, the target suffers the attack's normal effects, and green fire leaps from the target to a different creature of your choice that you can see within 5 feet of it. The second creature takes fire damage equal to your spellcasting ability modifier."

The target is pretty clear in green-flame blade.

A person could quicken and twin either of those cantrips on the same turn. 3 sorcery points is a pretty hefty investment to do it.

 

[TheKing]

Twinned Spell directly breaks the action economy. Booming Blade lets you attack as part of the casting.

This isn't hard.

Twinned spell is part of a specific spell action...

Now i Will simplify it to explain Why it you cant twin the melee of booming Bode

An action
When casting a spell you dont use your action unless the casting time is the same as an action... i hope we Can agree on this...?

When casting booming blade for it to work just one melee attack is needed - hope we Can agree on that?

Booming blade melee attack requires to be part of your action used regardless if its spell casting or whatever you wanna put it under... the melee attack still requires to be part of your action... we Can agree on this?

If we Can agree on these terms... its Per default from rules of mechanics impossible to twin the melee part.

That Said it doesnt stop the spell from being Twinned.

Also it Can be read on the Way you descripe where the attack is magical and some ghost sword hits the other target simultaniously (even though that wouldnt be a direct twin spell since you dont create some kind of ghost sword in the first place). Problem here is that the rules of magic attacks apply and is directly against the text of how the melee attack works within booming blade cause it would State its a regular effect and not magical. But if we Can twin cast the melee it has to be magical and Thereby magic effect has to apply according to the rules right? Or do you wanna avoid the rules of magic too?

Anyway in any case as of now untill Mr Crawford comments on the understanding it would be DM who rule how the understanding should be... DM chose what makes sense for him/her and everyone Else just gotta accept it Can be read and understood on different ways without anyone Can with complete evidence say one is better than the other

 

[Ashrym]

Twinned spell is part of a specific spell action...

Now i Will simplify it to explain Why it you cant twin the melee of booming Bode

An action
When casting a spell you dont use your action unless the casting time is the same as an action... i hope we Can agree on this...?

When casting booming blade for it to work just one melee attack is needed - hope we Can agree on that?

Booming blade melee attack requires to be part of your action used regardless if its spell casting or whatever you wanna put it under... the melee attack still requires to be part of your action... we Can agree on this?

If we Can agree on these terms... its Per default from rules of mechanics impossible to twin the melee part.

That Said it doesnt stop the spell from being Twinned.

Also it Can be read on the Way you descripe where the attack is magical and some ghost sword hits the other target simultaniously (even though that wouldnt be a direct twin spell since you dont create some kind of ghost sword in the first place). Problem here is that the rules of magic attacks apply and is directly against the text of how the melee attack works within booming blade cause it would State its a regular effect and not magical. But if we Can twin cast the melee it has to be magical and Thereby magic effect has to apply according to the rules right? Or do you wanna avoid the rules of magic too?

Anyway in any case as of now untill Mr Crawford comments on the understanding it would be DM who rule how the understanding should be... DM chose what makes sense for him/her and everyone Else just gotta accept it Can be read and understood on different ways without anyone Can with complete evidence say one is better than the other

That's incorrect and looks kind of condescending.

There is one action. It's casting a spell. The weapon attack is merely a part of that one action. Twin casts two spells using the same action. The weapon attacks are still merely a part of that one action that twin facilitated.

There's no extra part of an action required for the weapon attacks any more than adding any other extra VSM components. It's just part of the action already being taking.

 

[Salthorae]

Anyway in any case as of now untill Mr Crawford comments on the understanding

He has. His response here

He just references the rules of Twinned Spell: "Twinned Spell test: can the spell affect only one creature at the spell's current level, and is its range not self? If yes, TS works."

Ergo, you can Twin Booming Blade. No caveats on it.

You twin it. You make two attacks as part of the twinning.

 

[TheKing]

That's incorrect and looks kind of condescending.

There is one action. It's casting a spell. The weapon attack is merely a part of that one action. Twin casts two spells using the same action. The weapon attacks are still merely a part of that one action that twin facilitated.

There's no extra part of an action required for the weapon attacks any more than adding any other extra VSM components. It's just part of the action already being taking.

You are so wrong.

The melee part according to sages compendium is not part of the magic regardless if the magic forces you to do so

The twin spell only affect spells

Booming Blade consist of two fases melee attack and spell attack

The melee is Per written rules not part of the spell and is not Twinned.

If you disagree please provide evidence tjat backs it.

Attached is documentation stating what injudt Said is true.

 

[TheKing]

He has. His response here

He just references the rules of Twinned Spell: "Twinned Spell test: can the spell affect only one creature at the spell's current level, and is its range not self? If yes, TS works."

Ergo, you can Twin Booming Blade. No caveats on it.

You twin it. You make two attacks as part of the twinning.

Noone never Said it couldnt be Twinned - the discussion is if the melee part is Twinned or not - the spell attack is Twinned noone disagree on that cause we all know Crawford confirmed that - Eg. The link you provided.

 

[cbwjm]

You are so wrong.

The melee part according to sages compendium is not part of the magic regardless if the magic forces you to do so

The twin spell only affect spells

Booming Blade consist of two fases melee attack and spell attack

The melee is Per written rules not part of the spell and is not Twinned.

If you disagree please provide evidence tjat backs it.

Attached is documentation stating what injudt Said is true.

Nothing you just posted contradicts that you can twin booming blade. The first image just tells you which ability modifier to apply to an attack, it has nothing to do with twinning booming blade which you can as it is a spell that only has a single target and doesn't have a range of self.

 

[cbwjm]

Noone never Said it couldnt be Twinned - the discussion is if the melee part is Twinned or not - the spell attack is Twinned noone disagree on that cause we all know Crawford confirmed that - Eg. The link you provided.

The melee part is part of the spell, if you twin it, you need to perform the melee part again. Otherwise the spell fails. Would you also make a single attack roll with a twinned fire bolt? If the answer is no, then you also wouldn't make a single melee attack with a twinned booming blade.

 

[TheKing]

Nothing you just posted contradicts that you can twin booming blade. The first image just tells you which ability modifier to apply to an attack, it has nothing to do with twinning booming blade which you can as it is a spell that only has a single target and doesn't have a range of self.

I never Said you couldnt twin the spell of boomingblade...

I just say you cant twin the melee part, well more likely i say it Can be read on two ways that you cant and that you Can depending on how you want to understand the content.

And if you dont agree on that then lets just agree to disagree on how to read the written words